Will market volatility and or heath concerns with the virus influence your western hunting plans

[Nick87]

I'm going to apply like normal it is what it is. The money for the tag wont bother me if I cant go. Actually drawing a tag that is 5% or lower draw odds and not being able to enjoy the hunt would be the downside.

 

[AggieHunter]

I plan to continue applying in the majority of the western states, but most of my applications are for preference points or for tags like Bighorn that I am very unlikely to draw.

 

[rmauch20]

If I were the GF commissions in any state, I would be holding a special meeting right now to address the concerns of tag refunds.

I would tell people to apply at their own risk and no refunds, period.

It’s been said many times here that it is pay to play if you don’t have elk in your home state. Well if you don’t let me play I’m sure in the hell not gonna pay. That money could be used elsewhere.
But yes it would be nice if the remaining states would clarify their refund policy before the application deadline.

 

[roravetz]

I plan to keep applying like normal. It would be a real buzz kill if you drew a tough hunt in a state like NM where it is just completely random and turned out not to be able to go. It would be worse if you didn't apply and turned out there were no travel restrictions at that time...

 

[Kearnsie14]

I'm going to keep my WY cow elk application in. If I draw and can hunt, that's great. If I can't, I'll just happily view it as a charitable contribution to WY G&F, who would need the money as much as anybody.

 

[JohnCushman]

My governor pretty much screwed my Spring turkey hunting plans, and the virus took away the HT bear hunt. So, yes, the virus changed my plans, but not by my choice.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@BuzzH et al. most of this info is available and always has been.

Montana:


Wyoming:CHAPTER 44
(iii) In the case of incapacitating illness or injury of the licensee, the licensee’s spouse, parents, grandparents, siblings, lineal descendants and their spouses, step-parent, stepsibling, step-children, father-in-law, mother-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, step-son-in-law or step-daughter-in-law, or incapacitating illness or injury of a member of a party application, supported by a physician’s sworn statement on a Department form that the licensee is incapable of performing tasks necessary to exercise the privileges of the license;
(vi) When the Department determines fifty percent (50%) or more of the hunting opportunity and access to the public land within an individual hunt area outside of designated wilderness has been closed due to administrative actions of the state or federal 44-46 government in closing of the public access to public lands, or due to a natural disaster, including but not necessarily limited to, wildland fires, the licensee of a limited quota antelope, full price bighorn sheep, limited quota deer, li

 

[SaskHunter]

You would think if they would restrict nonresident access they would refund the tags

I contacted Montana F&G and was told "nope", even if the border between Canada and the US is closed, even if the season is cancelled... All I would get would be the 80% before 1 Aug and lose my points. This is completely retarded.

 

[Nick87]

The dept still needs the funding to operate.

 

[SaskHunter]

We had 2 family fishing/camping trips planned, Canada and Montana. Fingers are crossed for August in Montana. There is a real strong possibility that our June fishing trip to Canada probably won’t happen In June. We had a cabin on a lake booked for that one. I

Where abouts? I'll go in your stead!

 

[rmauch20]

The dept still needs the funding to operate.

They are making their problem my problem. Their funding issues would be self induced, they should of factored that in before making a decision.

 

[Nick87]

Well no one has to apply this year with the uncertainty, or any year for that matter if they dont want to.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

They are making their problem my problem. Their funding issues would be self induced, they should of factored that in before making a decision.

This is a tough situation, on the one side I agree with @BuzzH in that the whole point is to fund wildlife in the first place and that you should apply at your own risk... as always.

On the other hand, if the state closes a season and there for makes it impossible to use a service you bought from the state I think that's a problem that needs to be remedied.

Personally, I think a fair middle ground would be for the state of Montana to figure out what they are going to do prior to May 11. If it seems that continued measures are necessary or likely to be necessary, to then bar NR hunting before May 11. They should then cancel the non-resident MSGB draws (no refunds for app fees). For elk and deer NR would be allowed to either take an 80% refund as it's before Aug 1st, per the statue, or hold onto their tag and use it for the 2021 season.

I think generally speaking this is kinda what all states should do... cancel and refund the Big 3 and then for elk and deer, allow some sort of refund or a carry-forward policy. All app fees and base hunting licenses would be non-refundable no matter what, you applied in the draw you took the risk. Hunters would be out some money and the state would be able to split the loss between this year and next year (they would subtract the NR who are carrying forward their tags from next years quota).

---------------------------------------------------

Assuming the state decides to cancel seasons and leave everyone out to dry you can always try to do a charge back on your credit card. I think in this specific instance where the state is the denying you access to a good/service you purchased from them you absolutely have grounds not to pay.

I'm not sure what the split is between hunters paying with CCs versus debit cards but I'm assuming it's a pretty high percentage. If 5000 hunters do charge backs at $1000 a pop the credit card companies would have plenty of leverage to get the state to revisit it's policy.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I've been wondering the same thing here with our WMA openers. Whoever's working the counter at Stoney's can't be excited about that.

Shed Hunter Note, 4/6/20

They really muddied the waters on this to me...so it's open as usual other than the time change, but NR's have to quarantine for 14 days to be legal, so they have to get here 4/17 and hang out for two weeks before they go out and about? Plus you have to figure in local closures and health orders. Places like Pinedale and Kemmerer with little exposure are going to get plenty if they leave it like this. I don't really get it.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Shed Hunter Note, 4/6/20

They really muddied the waters on this to me...so it's open as usual other than the time change, but NR's have to quarantine for 14 days to be legal, so they have to get here 4/17 and hang out for two weeks before they go out and about? Plus you have to figure in local closures and health orders. Places like Pinedale and Kemmerer with little exposure are going to get plenty if they leave it like this. I don't really get it.

Directives are being rolled out by State and Local Governments nationwide that have almost no thought put into them. Gordon's directive is one of many. Decisions are being made out of fear. This is no place to be.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Ironic how some departments/states depend so heavily on NR license/tourist dollars, yet when the going gets tough it’s “well if you get screwed, you’re screwed.” They can do this because demand outpaces the need to engage stakeholders and partners proportionally.

I’m of the opinion that if we NR’s see ourselves as conservation partners, rather than consumers, the money lost in cancelled hunts is money mostly well spent/invested, and there’s no reason to whine or complain about it.

I have no plans to withdraw my WY elk app at this point, barring a major announcement by WG&F. I see it as an “at your own risk” payment. Maybe if I draw a tag I’ll get a refund or get the tag issued next year, or best case I go hunting. The worst that can happen is I eat the cost and I can live with that.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Ironic how some departments/states depend so heavily on NR license/tourist dollars, yet when the going gets tough it’s “well if you get screwed, you’re screwed.” They can do this because demand outpaces the need to engage stakeholders and partners proportionally.

I’m of the opinion that if we NR’s see ourselves as conservation partners, rather than consumers, the money lost in cancelled hunts is money mostly well spent/invested, and there’s no reason to whine or complain about it.

I think "screwing over people" is a poor choice for western states. Customer retention is going to be important over the next couple of years as the economy recovers.

I hope states recognize this fact and act accordingly.

 

[ErictheRed]

Montana: View attachment 134865
View attachment 134866

This is a tough situation, on the one side I agree with @BuzzH in that the whole point is to fund wildlife in the first place and that you should apply at your own risk... as always.

On the other hand, if the state closes a season and there for makes it impossible to use a service you bought from the state I think that's a problem that needs to be remedied.

Personally, I think a fair middle ground would be for the state of Montana to figure out what they are going to do prior to May 11. If it seems that continued measures are necessary or likely to be necessary, to then bar NR hunting before May 11. They should then cancel the non-resident MSGB draws (no refunds for app fees). For elk and deer NR would be allowed to either take an 80% refund as it's before Aug 1st, per the statue, or hold onto their tag and use it for the 2021 season.

I think generally speaking this is kinda what all states should do... cancel and refund the Big 3 and then for elk and deer, allow some sort of refund or a carry-forward policy. All app fees and base hunting licenses would be non-refundable no matter what, you applied in the draw you took the risk. Hunters would be out some money and the state would be able to split the loss between this year and next year (they would subtract the NR who are carrying forward their tags from next years quota).

---------------------------------------------------

Assuming the state decides to cancel seasons and leave everyone out to dry you can always try to do a charge back on your credit card. I think in this specific instance where the state is the denying you access to a good/service you purchased from them you absolutely have grounds not to pay.

I'm not sure what the split is between hunters paying with CCs versus debit cards but I'm assuming it's a pretty high percentage. If 5000 hunters do charge backs at $1000 a pop the credit card companies would have plenty of leverage to get the state to revisit it's policy.

I realize on this forum Outfitters are useless pieces of %^&#$, but they are small business owners without clients. The impact to the State of Montana if they screw the NR hunter is one thing - we lose our deposits. But killing hunting seasons really screws their small businesses, land owners, outfitters, taxidermists, meat processors, hotel owners, restaurants and the airlines among others. This is a huge financial decision that needs a measured hand.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I think "screwing over people" is a poor choice for western states. Customer retention is going to be important over the next couple of years as the economy recovers.

I hope states recognize this fact and act accordingly.

And again there is a character issue - if the state collects the money and then prevents the very hunt they charged the money for why is that the hunter's loss? I expect governments to behave better than that. I am, however, all in favor of folks donating their refunds to the conservation fund of their choosing (and I probably will do this if it comes to that).

 

[Hookedonelk]

I sent in for the Colorado draw. Hoping that if I draw and cannot travel that they will do similar to the turkey season, I think if they give a refund and restore your points is great! I think that if they restore and refund, they should keep the amount of money it would cost for a point and gain a point towards next years draw. We already have money into our outfitter who is telling us to apply. Scared to not apply and lose the outfitter money, but also worried about drawing and not being able to travel state to state.