What's the Reason?

[blue devil]

Just one of those "I wonder why" questions. I don't know about other states, but in SD when a person applies for a tag, we typically find out if we were successful or not within a few weeks after the application timeline closes? But when I apply for a MT tag, it takes approx. 8 weeks to find out? Why does it take so much longer to find out? Are other western states also follow this same approx. timeline? Has MT ever addressed this?

 

[wannakillabigbull]

Are other western states also follow this same approx. timeline?

For a good idea of what other state's approximate timeline is, reference the goHUNT link below.
https://www.gohunt.com/read/INSIDER/2019-western-big-game-hunting-application-deadlines

As you can see, it varies greatly by state and even by species in that state. For example Colorado has a roughly 1 month turn around for goat and sheep but a 2 month turn around for other big game animals. Utah has a couple weeks turn around for bear but over two months for other big game animals.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Usually has to do with the timing of population surveys, harvest quotas, and season setting. Those things aren’t necessarily the same everywhere.

 

[blue devil]

For a good idea of what other state's approximate timeline is, reference the goHUNT link below.
https://www.gohunt.com/read/INSIDER/2019-western-big-game-hunting-application-deadlines

As you can see, it varies greatly by state and even by species in that state. For example Colorado has a roughly 1 month turn around for goat and sheep but a 2 month turn around for other big game animals. Utah has a couple weeks turn around for bear but over two months for other big game animals.

I would suppose the longer timeline is due to the larger numbers of applicants on those big game animals and number of units? I'm just used to the 2-3 week turnaround on everything here. It won't stop me from applying for Montana tags! Thanks for the knowledge

 

[wannakillabigbull]

I would suppose the longer timeline is due to the larger numbers of applicants on those big game animals and number of units?

In some cases yes, but there are other contributing factors. As @Hunting_Wife alluded to the determination of tag quotas can hold up the draw (such as for Utah, elk quotas I believe we just determined). But then why don't they just move the application deadline back knowing that they won't have tag quotas for a couple months? I'm not sure the answer to that for every state. Maybe someone else will chime in that does.

 

[ImBillT]

Usually has to do with the timing of population surveys, harvest quotas, and season setting. Those things aren’t necessarily the same everywhere.

Should those not all be finished prior to the application deadline? Not saying they all are, but why shouldn’t they be? If those aren’t complete before the application deadline, then either you’re applying for an unknown, or the data has nothing to do with the tags issued. Obviously WY is addressing this illogical approach right now, and only addressed one of the two issues.

 

[LopeHunter]

People get upset when they know government workers but you complain about government having workers not motivated, poor leadership and policies that do not make apparent sense.

Online draw applications have sped up the time it takes to "load" all the applicants and their choices into the draw system to then perform the draw. Any draw system that goes more than 4 weeks from close of applications to announcing the results is not optimal and likely there is no motivation for the workers and leadership to care. They may actually like getting a rise out of you as that is the power source for the walking dead.

Here is why 4 weeks seems acceptable. You build the draw model ahead of the application deadline. If the draw model is held up waiting for final tags numbers then push back the application deadline. Verify the applicants. Load the verified applicant's choices. Run the draw sequence. Audit the results to make sure properly drew and awarded tags. Charge credit cards in states that do not pre-charge. Announce results. Could a state get the process down to 1 week? Yes, if 100% online applications and tag quantities are final as application deadline closes.

 

[bobbydean]

I still like New Mexico. Do all the above and quicker. I still see red!

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Should those not all be finished prior to the application deadline? Not saying they all are, but why shouldn’t they be? If those aren’t complete before the application deadline, then either you’re applying for an unknown, or the data has nothing to do with the tags issued. Obviously WY is addressing this illogical approach right now, and only addressed one of the two issues.

Because then all hour applications are pre loaded and ready to go. If you waited, the application period would be mid summer, add a couple of weeks for draw apps to be entered and quality controls checks in place, and now you’re getting results late and people would bitch.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Because then all hour applications are pre loaded and ready to go. If you waited, the application period would be mid summer, add a couple of weeks for draw apps to be entered and quality controls checks in place, and now you’re getting results late and people would bitch.

Some people will go out of their way to find SOMETHING to bitch about no matter what.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Should those not all be finished prior to the application deadline? Not saying they all are, but why shouldn’t they be?

I just mentioned it as one possible reason. For antelope in particular, survey timing can hold up the draw because they can’t survey until fawns are big enough to be up running around and visible. If there’s bad weather, flights get delayed, draw gets delayed.

Some deadlines used to be later, but hunters complained they didn’t have enough lead time to plan trips. What can you do...can’t make everyone happy.

But I’m not privy to all the inner workings of the draw. Maybe when Montana upgrades their licensing system it will streamline things some. Who knows.

 

[blue devil]

I just mentioned it as one possible reason. For antelope in particular, survey timing can hold up the draw because they can’t survey until fawns are big enough to be up running around and visible. If there’s bad weather, flights get delayed, draw gets delayed.

Some deadlines used to be later, but hunters complained they didn’t have enough lead time to plan trips. What can you do...can’t make everyone happy.

But I’m not privy to all the inner workings of the draw. Maybe when Montana upgrades their licensing system it will streamline things some. Who knows.

I don't know the inner working of the draws either, so that's why the inquiring question. Antelope was one of the main reasons for the question. For myself the 2 months between finding out if I draw a tag and when the season starts is more than enough time to plan, since I merely have a 7-8 drive and I preplan months ahead anyway, but for someone who doesn't it may be a tougher planning process. But that's their own fault for not planning better. I appreciate all of the information on this topic from everyone

 

[ImBillT]

Because then all hour applications are pre loaded and ready to go. If you waited, the application period would be mid summer, add a couple of weeks for draw apps to be entered and quality controls checks in place, and now you’re getting results late and people would bitch.

But under your scenario the time between the app deadline and draw results is short. The question was about why the app deadline and results is so long. The answer proposed by HuntingWife is that all those things are being done between those dates, and now you suggest that the reason they are done between those dates is get results out before those things are complete. One or both of us is lost.

 

[ImBillT]

I just mentioned it as one possible reason. For antelope in particular, survey timing can hold up the draw because they can’t survey until fawns are big enough to be up running around and visible. If there’s bad weather, flights get delayed, draw gets delayed.

Some deadlines used to be later, but hunters complained they didn’t have enough lead time to plan trips. What can you do...can’t make everyone happy.

But I’m not privy to all the inner workings of the draw. Maybe when Montana upgrades their licensing system it will streamline things some. Who knows.

That’s fine, but how does applying for a hunt before that info is gathered delay the result? The info is not acted upon if applications are due before the info is gathered unless applicants are applying blindly for hunts that may not exist. I’m not convinced that any biological data gathering is directly related to slow drawing processes, at least in the vast majority of situations.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

But under your scenario the time between the app deadline and draw results is short. The question was about why the app deadline and results is so long. The answer proposed by HuntingWife is that all those things are being done between those dates, and now you suggest that the reason they are done between those dates is get results out before those things are complete. One or both of us is lost.

You’re not applying for an unknown, you are applying off last years data and/or long term trends depending on how you do your research. Knowing those trends, the state can take applications, enter them, and have everything ready for when flight data is compiled. Once the commission approves final quotas, the draw can commence.

 

[ImBillT]

You’re not applying for an unknown, you are applying off last years data and/or long term trends depending on how you do your research. Knowing those trends, the state can take applications, enter them, and have everything ready for when flight data is compiled. Once the commission approves final quotas, the draw can commence.

HuntingWife included season dates. How many applications don’t have set season dates? Most of regulation booklets include the number of tags available. That’s two of the three parts mentioned, and the third part mentioned(population data) would control the two above.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

HuntingWife included season dates. How many applications don’t have set season dates? Most of regulation booklets include the number of tags available. That’s two of the three parts mentioned, and the third part mentioned(population data) would control the two above.

Season dates can and do change based on final data. So, most applications probably are based on a tentative season date. That’s why the initial stuff is listed as tentative pending commission decisions.

At this point I really have no idea what you’re driving at.

 

[Hunting Wife]

I said nothing about dates. I was thinking more about the occasional closures that occur due to extenuating circumstances. Rare, but it happens, nearly always based on an alarming population survey. In the case of antelope b tags, they include numbers of tags likely arrived at the way JLS described, but also note that they MAY offer additional tags to successful applicants. Hedging their bets because they don’t actually have a number to work with yet.

Regardless, we’re getting way into the weeds. OP asked about the differences between states. I merely suggested there are myriad potential reasons for the differences in time between application and draw, and it likely depends largely on the state, how they do business (both biological and administrative), the system they use for the draw, etc. If you want the specifics for a state, you’ll have to call and ask them.

 

[ImBillT]

Season dates can and do change based on final data. So, most applications probably are based on a tentative season date. That’s why the initial stuff is listed as tentative pending commission decisions.

At this point I really have no idea what you’re driving at.

I guess I just haven’t run into any season dates changing between the application and the draw that caught my attention, nor heard enough complaints about tag numbers changing post application(outside of the WY non-res elk drawing) to think that would delay drawing results in most circumstances.

 

[ImBillT]

Usually has to do with the timing of population surveys, harvest quotas, and season setting. Those things aren’t necessarily the same everywhere.

I took “season setting” to be related to dates. I guess you have people applying for seasons that don’t even exist? Sorry I misunderstood. I guess I still don’t understand.