What will the future look like for colleges?

[FamilyMan]

FWIW, I think we are entering the age of the autodidact in some sectors of the economy that used to require 4 year degrees or more - particularly technology. IT departments across the world are paying big bucks to people who have no college degree, or an associates degree, based not on the paper associated with their name, but because of what they can I do.

I hope you are right. Computer Science is a great example. My son has a genius for working with computers (all self-taught) but will never earn the elusive computer science diploma because he will never be able to pass a calculus class or many of the other degree requirements. Still, I can assure you he is more capable with computers then most who do earn the degree!

 

[rwc101]

It is my strongly held belief that Universities require students to take all those extra courses (the so-called well rounded education) for the sole purpose of keeping you there longer so that they make more money.

It has its roots in the concept of a classical education which by the late 19th century (when all the land grant institutions popped up) came to mean a student was educated in literature, philosophy, history, art, languages, etc as that was believed to be the pathway to being a better citizen.

 

[slatebuilder]

My wife’s cousin is 25, he has a 2 year technical degree. In 2019 he made just over 2X what I do as a school teacher in the game for 17 years. Education is not a one size fits all approach. The range of truly good options is as diverse today as the unique individuals seeking those options.

What happens to all the hands on technical stuff in a “work from home” and “cyber education” world? How does a nurse learn to take someone’s blood pressure remotely/online, or put an IV in an arm? How does a dental hygienist learn to clean teeth? Welders, electricians, plumbers, pipe fitters, carpenters? Do you like comfortable places to live, paved roads, vehicles that function, your online order delivered from ups, or cold air conditioning? How about functional cell towers and whatever G networks? OnX maps? Food on the planets tables? Many of the comforts our lifestyle deems to be essential necessities are brought to us by highly skilled people in jobs and careers that got their start in high school science, family and consumer science, and shop classes then continued in post secondary tech schools, colleges, and other similar programs. We all benefit from the efforts of people in these jobs and careers somehow on a daily basis. Not all good jobs and careers need a 4 year liberal arts degree, it takes all sorts. I voted accordingly with hope that we do not forget such, but often big money speaks loudest.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I voted no change because it most closely matches my thoughts out of those options, but I do think there will be some change. The financial struggles will come real and fast IMO, and the identity crisis for traditional college education will be simmering under the surface for most if not all institutions. In the long run I feel it'll be more like a big bump that drives some change; wild guess of course.

 

[diamond hitch]

As a professor, the online program might be reasonable for some programs but I feel there is no way you can get through engineering or geology with online programs. I taught this semester and really felt the students got cheated. In a way, I got cheated. The enjoyable part of teaching is the ability to answer their questions and to see their faces to know there are questions not being asked. What you are trying to teach can kinda be presented on line. If you are worth a damn, your contribution is your experience and carreer knowledge to fill in the gaps that make your contribution critical to the success of your students.

All of us that have done the college experience know that 15-20% of your professors made the difference in the class and your understanding. About the same amount on the other end where you would most likely have been better off if they never even showed up. The ones in the middle, unlocked the door and hopefully provided useful items and did no harm.

We will never see it but I would like to see the universities have to provide the pay range for each graduate, number of available jobs, and where the jobs are located. My first degree was in wildlife but there were no jobs in the early 70s and the pay was embarrassing low. You needed a masters to apply for a game wardon job. By the time I graduated in Mining Engineering I had gone through 3 other fields with no available jobs. All of my other degrees have made me better at the job I spent a career at but I doubt if I ever recaptured my investment.

A good friend of mine (head of a department) once told me: "Most of the faculty on campus should be in a mental hospital or a prison. It's just cheaper to keep them at a university."

I think I got the most out of my college experience. I attended: U of Montana, Montana State, North Dakota State, U of Idaho, Eastern Washington, Montana Tech, Colorado State plus short courses at various other places. College was still affordable in the 70s. It's a question now. I earned my way through college trapping beaver and working on farms.

 

[slatebuilder]

@JLS good luck to your family in this quest. This is an exciting time for kids. There are tons of interesting and viable options out there.

 

[MJE2083]

It has its roots in the concept of a classical education which by the late 19th century (when all the land grant institutions popped up) came to mean a student was educated in literature, philosophy, history, art, languages, etc as that was believed to be the pathway to being a better citizen.

Yes! Colleges and Universities are not trade schools. You go to college to get a well rounded education, not just vocational training. Sure there are issues with costs, but let's not lose sight of this point. Going to college for me was life changing. It made me a better writer, a better reader, a better speaker, a better leader, a better thinker, the list goes on and on. I no longer work in the field that I majored in, but I certainly would not be where I am without my education. Was the cost worth it? I guess that's debatable. I think many people directly equate the cost to future earning potential, but I'm not sure that you can quantify the values of higher education. It's not for everyone, but there is certainly value beyond how big your paycheck is.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Makes for a good argument for picking a trade and being "essential". One could only hope nonsense courses and degrees will become obsolete (at least in public schools)

“It could be said that a liberal education has the nature of a bequest, in that it looks upon the student as the potential heir of a cultural birthright, whereas a practical education has the nature of a commodity to be exchanged for position, status, wealth, etc., in the future. A liberal education rests on the assumption that nature and human nature do not change very much or very fast and that one therefore needs to understand the past. The practical educators assume that human society itself is the only significant context, that change is therefore fundamental, constant, and necessary, that the future will be wholly unlike the past, that the past is outmoded, irrelevant, and an encumbrance upon the future -- the present being only a time for dividing past from future, for getting ready.

But these definitions, based on division and opposition, are too simple. It is easy, accepting the viewpoint of either side, to find fault with the other. But the wrong is on neither side; it is in their division...

Without the balance of historic value, practical education gives us that most absurd of standards: "relevance," based upon the suppositional needs of a theoretical future. But liberal education, divorced from practicality, gives something no less absurd: the specialist professor of one or another of the liberal arts, the custodian of an inheritance he has learned much about, but nothing from.”

-Wendell Berry

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Good discussion. First thought, state run universities are not a for profit business and to think they should function like one is silly.

I had a hell of a lot of fun in college. Costs were far different as well. Tuition was about $1800 per year. I could make enough during the summer to cover about half of my school. I don’t begrudge the elective classes I don’t use. Some of my favorite classes were honors classes that focuses on history, architecture, and literature.

I don’t begrudge the system of using graduate students for cheap labor. Three of the funnest years of my life were spent as a Masters student in Laramie. I taught hands on lab classes that couldn’t be replicated online.

In all honesty, if I could I’d make public four year schools affordable enough that kids could go there. I think there’s value in the college experience. For the current price, I think the value is not there anymore. That’s sad to me, but the debt burden is not worth the experience. I’ve told my kids to go wait tables and be ski bums if they want to discover themselves, but don’t pay $22k a year to find out who you are.

 

[Old man bob]

Arizona announced today the 3 state Schools are opening in the fall as Planned! ASU, Uof A and NAU, On campus too they say. Mid august will be here soon!..............BOB!

 

[slatebuilder]

Much of the education experience is about far more than just the curriculum. There is also a ton of little stuff folks pick up from classes without even realizing it.

 

[Irrelevant]

"never let schooling get in the way of your education" -Twain

 

[Gerald Martin]

College is way overrated and will be going the way of the dodo.

By simply reading social media, clicking on links, and sharing to my friends list I have become a widely recognized constitutional authority with a minor on infectious disease mitigation.

Next month I will probably understand all the nuances of governmental social control and how to implement worldwide vaccinations.

Also, I learned the secrets of the the stock market and how to trade like Buffet from this very forum.

Yet, I choose humility and the pedestrian employment of pounding nails.

I could print off my online diploma from Trump U if that would impress anyone who walks into my job trailer.

 

[Trial153]

No change. Let the profiteering continue

 

[noharleyyet]

Thinking about an online Brittney Cooper class but E-Rutgers is a little pricey.

 

[Carnage2011]

I think college provides a great value in certain fields. Obviously we need quality education for specialized fields like lawyers, doctors, accountants, and so on, but I think some degrees will go away or become online only. International basket weaving from the university of Montana probably isn’t something people need to pay 30k for.

If I was fresh out of high school and looking for a future I’d be strongly considering a good trade. Plumbers, electricians, and other trades are in short supply right now. Good ones that are reliable are even tougher to find.

 

[3855WIN]

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I don't think online learning is equivalent. It is what it is for now, but current students are losing out.

Thinking back on my courses there are only a handful that you could really do online and not walk away with a dramatically degraded experience.

My kids have not enjoyed online courses. One is a HS senior and the other a college senior.

 

[88man]

some of those private schools will go belly up and become assisted living facilities.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

Is there an option for "they will become even more expensive"?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

My kids have not enjoyed online courses. One is a HS senior and the other a college senior.

Absolutely, but I'm sure neither would have wanted to do all 4 years that way.