what is a guide ????????

[jbm]

i know this will piss off some guys but i think it needs to be said
now lets look at a few things here that i think might cover what a real true guide is

1. he is older with some hard miles behind him in the field
2. if he is younger then he is still learning even if right now he thinks he knows all make a mental note right now younger guys and think back to this time in your life right now 10-20 yrs. from now and you will then see what i mean.
3. he is the guy up at 4 am feeding the horses you back in on
4. he is the same guy now getting the fore going and making coffee
5. he is the same guy that is telling you what will be best to take up the hill today for the weather you will be getting into
6. he is the guy telling you the best place to start glassing when you do get up to the area that he plans to hunt that day. keep in mind he is not always the 1st one to see the game but he is the guy that got you there
7.if and when you spot game he is the 1 that will let you know if that is what your looking for in that area . again you are not hunting for B&C animals but animals that are goos for that area. [ i just shot a cow elk the other day which is not a B&C animal gut was just as hard to get on as the bulls that were also next to. i chose to shoot a cow over a bull because the bulls needed a cpl more yrs on them for me . that does not mean that the next guy would not have shot 1 that means i choose not to .please dont read into that something that is not there.
8 he is the guy that gets your animal gutted,1/4erd and loaded on the horses or his back to make the trip back to camp. he is the guy that brings out the rain gear for the trip back to camp even if there was not a cloud in the sky when you headed out that morning.
9.he is the guy that tries to keep you alive on that mountain and not let you know just how bad it might be out there 20 miles out in the middle of nowhere
with 2 days of food left and a 3 days hike out with that moose[ or any other game ]
10. he is the guy the is left out of most of the stories you will tell about your elk hunt after you get home nice and safe.

i know i have left a lot out in this thread
this is where you add to what you have seen out there with a guide and what it is you think makes a guide

a few things i think have shown up on all these so called hunting shows where a guy from any state is sitting in a tree stand or blind with what the TV show calls a guide. the odds are they are only 20 min. from a nice warm lodge . i still can not see what makes these guides a true guide . the only thing i think they are doing is letting the client know how much that [ booner ] will cost him when he pulls the trigger

 

[wyoming556]

A guide is the person you are paying to do things that you apparently cannot or don't want to do on your own. Basically an adult babysitter. I have babysat plenty of adult hunters. Not on mountain hunts but it's still the same in many ways just trade horses for a pickup and elk for antelope. In fact the babies/guys who go on guided lodge hunts are more fussy in many ways because they expect everything to be easier then someone who goes on a mountain hunt. Guys on lodge hunts want their bottle on a schedule(B,L,D) and they want their diaper changed (bed made) by the lodge staff so their crib will be ready for them every night. They want to be driven around by a chauffer/daddy. They throw a fit if you can't find them the biggest animal of the season. They think they are special even though they are not. They think they are great hunters even though if you dropped them off at the hunting spot they would be helpless and rarely even find an animal let alone shoot something. Most are terrible shooters who do not practice, some don't even sight their gun in before a hunt (happens more than you would believe). Most will complain about walking a 1/4 mile. They don't' break their new boots in before they go hunting and complain about blisters immediately. I could go on but I think you get the picture.

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

So, A guy wants to get some Hunting in a state where you just about have to go though a Guide, they're wimps needing bottles? What about Alaska for certain species? New Mexico and others make it hard to sit around waiting on points to get the hunt, whereas I can pay a Guide and hunt in a couple of years. Yes, this is a DIY site, but you comments are so off base it really is kinda shameful to hear you speak that way about people who spend thier money supporting the same sport as you do. John

 

[mrmedora]

True John. I want to hunt in Alaska someday, and depending on where or what, I too may have to do it through a guide. By the time I am able to do that hunt, maybe rules in AK will change though. Either way, I'm doing an AK hunt, guide or no guide!

 

[wyoming556]

So, A guy wants to get some Hunting in a state where you just about have to go though a Guide, they're wimps needing bottles? What about Alaska for certain species? New Mexico and others make it hard to sit around waiting on points to get the hunt, whereas I can pay a Guide and hunt in a couple of years. Yes, this is a DIY site, but you comments are so off base it really is kinda shameful to hear you speak that way about people who spend thier money supporting the same sport as you do. John

If you are talking to me I clearly said lodge hunts for Antelope in Wyoming. You don't' have to go through a guide to hunt antelope in WY, that is a fact. That has nothing to do with what you brought up in Alaska and there is no need to hunt Antelope in wilderness areas in WY. These are tags that can be drawn every year so it has nothing to do with drawing a tag in NM and there is ample public land available to hunt. Sorry your exceptions don't' apply to what I said at all.


It's true and it bothers you because you go on guided hunts. That is why you have a problem with what I said. Everything I posted is from actual experiences and based on facts, none of it is made up or exaggerated.

Apparently I hurt your feelings, that was not my intent.

 

[noharleyyet]

A good guide gets an honest effort out of his client, conveys a true respect for quarry, habitat, and his fellow man...an inferior guide develops a piss poor attitude about his clients.

 

[jbm]

So, A guy wants to get some Hunting in a state where you just about have to go though a Guide, they're wimps needing bottles? What about Alaska for certain species? New Mexico and others make it hard to sit around waiting on points to get the hunt, whereas I can pay a Guide and hunt in a couple of years. Yes, this is a DIY site, but you comments are so off base it really is kinda shameful to hear you speak that way about people who spend thier money supporting the same sport as you do. John

good point but i think you might be taking this the wrong way . this thread is not about only hunting without the use of a guide but what is a guide these days. i really do believe that the use of the word guide is being watered downed . mostly it is the midwest [ which is now where even close to being in the midwest as they are way closer to the east coast ] and the south like texas that call a guy sitting next to a client telling him which deer to shoot.sorry but sitting in a blind watching deer eat feed that you put out for them to eat is not guiding. i also get so sick and tired hearing those same guys say how hard they had been hunting that day sitting in a blind. please that was hard ? if you think that was a HARD HUNT let me take you on a self guided tahr hunt and see how tired you are at the end of your day lol
in fact if i used trail camera's and stuck out buckets of feed in my back yard just to bring in deer and shoot 1 i would be in hand cuffs . this state does not let you even think about trying to hunt like that thank god.

 

[noharleyyet]

in fact if i used trail camera's and stuck out buckets of feed in my back yard just to bring in deer and shoot 1 i would be in hand cuffs . this state does not let you even think about trying to hunt like that thank god.

...so we have gone from guide criteria to how sanctified Montana is?...as usual

 

[jbm]

A good guide gets an honest effort out of his client, conveys a true respect for quarry, habitat, and his fellow man...an inferior guide develops a piss poor attitude about his clients.

i think you are very wrong about what you call an inferior guide . just because a guide has reached the end of his rope with these cry baby clients does not make him inferior. these days to many of these hunting shows show the viewer a very false picture of how true hunting really is. so many of these clients these days think they can buy a trophy. they think because they payed a guide to take them say elk hunting that they will be going home with a booner. they loose sight of what true fare chase hunting is and what they have really payed the guide for

 

[jbm]

...so we have gone from guide criteria to how sanctified Montana is?...as usual

has nothing to do with montana it has to doo with sticking buckets of food out does not make a guide

 

[noharleyyet]

...it was more a reply to Wyo's blanket diatribe than an indictment..read it again slowly.

 

[noharleyyet]

has nothing to do with montana it has to doo with sticking buckets of food out does not make a guide

..you bet.

 

[DKO]

Thats a loaded question...............a guide to some could be a brother, a father or a good buddy to others he's the guy hired by the outfitters to take you hunting, he may or may not have a license depending on where you are. he or she maybe 80 or 18 and may have a wealth of knowledge or none at all (this has been proven time and time again).

Do you honestly think that a guy booking a pack trip for elk has the same expectations as a guy booking a lodge antelope hunt?............really?

Every client has a right to "choose" a guide and every guide has a right to "refuse" a client. Clients will continually bitch about guides and guides will continually bitch about clients, it's the price of doing business!

If your a guide running antelope hunts out of a lodge and you bitch about fat guys not being prepared then ya might want to do a reality check and think about another profession. just sayin!

 

[wyoming556]

...it was more a reply to Wyo's blanket diatribe than an indictment..read it again slowly.

Ken,

If you want to believe I am a poor guide, you are probably right. I am much better at managing construction projects than babysitting hunters. I guess I am better an babysitting contractors than babysitting hunters if you want to get technical.

If a hunter does not practice shooting before he goes hunting that is not on the guide. If a hunter does not sight in his rifle before a hunt that is not the guides fault. If a hunter does not break his boots in before he goes on a guided hunt that is not on the guide. The list goes on an on.

There is no reason to take this stuff personally if that is not how you act when you go on guided hunts. I have no doubt that you and draftstud would never do that sort of thing on a hunt. It is puzzling to me why you guys feel the need to stand up for this type of sad excuse for a hunter.

I understand that Alaska is a different story, I understand that there are exceptions to the rule and good reasons to go on a guided hunt in some situations and states. Hunting Antelope in Wyoming is not one of those situations.

 

[noharleyyet]

I guess I am better an babysitting contractors than babysitting hunters if you want to get technical.

Contractors....or low bidders?...often two distinctly different things.

Just bustin' on ya Rowdy. Outfitters don't mind taking the money nor exaggerating hunt expectations.

 

[jbm]

ok i see it is already getting hot in this room lol
1 of the main reasons i started this thread is from another thread i was reading and replied to some time back. it went something like this
a client/hunter [ and i hate to even use the word hunter ] was bitching about how much he had to pay a guide [ and again i hate to even use the word guide as this guy was no guide ]
he was back east on this guided pig hunt. the guide had different color tags in the ears of pigs that showed the client what the price would be for the pig based on the color
something like this red is a $100 AND GREEN IS $ 200 AND SO ON
well 1 i replied to the thread and pointed out the he [ client ] was not hunting he was just shooting pigs and 2 the guide was not a guide just a farmer selling pigs to any dumb ass willing to pay the price. the farmer is pretty smart i take selling guided hunts for pig and getting 4-5 times the money he would have if he took them to market
but the client is not a hunter just because he owns a gun and could get it to go bang
and the guide was not a guide just because he set up a treestand

 

[wyoming556]

A good guide gets an honest effort out of his client, conveys a true respect for quarry, habitat, and his fellow man...an inferior guide develops a piss poor attitude about his clients.

Ken,

I have another example for you and will let you decide how piss poor my attitude is. Every bit of this story came from the 3 days I spent guiding this piece of work.

Guiding a overweight extremely wealthy guy on a prairie dog hunt in Wyoming. He flies in with his buddies on their private jet. Proceeds to tell me all about his hunts around the world and his trophy room. Talks about how great of a hunter he is constantly. talks down to me at every opportunity possible. He even explained to me that Antelope are not native to North America and they were brought over years ago from Africa. Tells me about his mountain goat and sheep hunt in Canada. He has a helicopter fly his fat ass up the mountain and down the mountain every day so he can sleep in a lodge with the comforts of home. He uses the guides gun to shoot a goat at 800 yards. Tells me it took 6 shots to finally hit it. Has them bring it to him at the lodge so he can get back down the mountain.

While prairie dog hunting he sits with his arms crossed and waits for me to spot every single dog and give him a range. Literally asks range several hundred times per day even if it is the same dog he just missed. He acts upset if we go more then 5 minutes between dogs and wants me to move the whole group to a better spot. If while driving he sees tire tracks he tells me that it looks like someone has been here before and wants to go somewhere that nobody has shot. On the way back from prairie dog hunting he decides to shoot a Buffalo. So do 3 of his friends. At the end of the trip after dragging these idiots around for 3 days they tip the guides a $100 each.

He also tells me about his 200" whitetail hunt. Talks about how great it was and how he is one of the few hunters in the world to shoot a 200" whitetail. Then explains that it was a high fence place and the color of the ear tag told them how old the buck was.

Am I supposed to be impressed with this guy? Should I be impressed with his trophy room or goat/sheep hunt stories? Supposed to be impressed with his 200" whitetail?

You could drop this POS off in the red desert and he would not be able to kill an antelope by himself yet he claims to be one of the best hunters in the world because of his trophy room. GMEFB.

I don't think much of hunters like this. If you think that makes me a bad person then so be it. If you think I have a piss poor attitude then so be it. I see things differently and can't believe a guy like you would stand up for someone like that.

 

[wyoming556]

Contractors....or low bidders?...often two distinctly different things.

Just bustin' on ya Rowdy. Outfitters don't mind taking the money nor exaggerating hunt expectations.

True but there is a difference in guides and outfitters as well. Outfitters can be everything from hard working and honest to downright crooks. Most guides don't' make that much money and are usually people who like working outside and chasing animals, rarely do they do it to get rich. I have never met a rich guide but have seen rich outfitters.

I have no issue with hunters who use guides. I have no issue with hunting private land. I have issues with people who have money and guns pretending to be hunters.

 

[2rocky]

JBM, and 556, many of your points resonated with me on both sides.

I have considered a career in outfitting and the disparity in expectations between hunters and guides has been a strike against that field for me. I found as a summer guide during college, that fishing clients and backpacking/horse packing clients were not as demanding, and more pleasant to be around. Perhaps in 20 years, I can retire and just pack in beautiful women to high mountain lakes...

I really struggle with the idea of helping someone be successful hunting that I might not think DESERVED it. That made me realize that while hunting was something I LOVE, being a Hunting Guide or Outfitter, might seriously diminish that love. I think many of today's guides, are people who were not hunters first. Some see themselves as cowboys while others take a more holistic approach. It is tough when you have more hunting experience than the 20 year old kid taking you up to the day's hunting spot.

As a hunter, I have a hard enough time finding another hunter I am compatible with for a hunting trip. Why would I expect to find a hunting guide who I might only meet for the first time when I arrive in camp, that meets my expectation for the "perfect hunting partner"?

Now I know that most of us self guided folks are rugged individualists that have perfected our gear and methods with years of practice. It is tough for us to realize that the outfitter has to balance a public resource with a positive cash flow, round the clock customer service, and a shaky cross section of the labor pool, all while being a "rugged and determined" outdoorsman.

Even today, in my career, I have clients I do not respect. But somehow it is bearable because I can get away from them and go hunting a few times a year. I think a good guide tailors his approach to the clients expectations, regardless of their personal feelings.

 

[jbm]

556 we seem to think about the same as to how good these rich clients/hunters really are
the complain when there is nothing to complain about and everything is about how much money they have and how much they like to spend on guided hunts but rarely do they ever tip the guy that had to put up with there b.s. for that week