Vision for Montana in 20 years

[Gerald Martin]

Good idea but never would work. To much of a liability and honestly most people probably can’t even run a simple fence stretcher. Why waste the ranchers time in showing someone for them just to Screw it up so it has to be redone anyways taking twice as long as before? Would be a bigger headache than the phone calls in the fall

If actual work getting done was the end goal you are probably right. If developing relationship is the goal it would probably work.

If I were a landowner considering who I wanted to grant access to, I would prefer someone willing to help as being preferable to an unknown stranger knocking on my door.

 

[brockel]

If actual work getting done was the end goal you are probably right.

The working ranches I’ve worked on this is the only goal. Only so much time through the spring and summer to get everything that needs to get done before the fall and winter show up

 

[gonhunting247]

I agree with limiting tags, maybe controlled tags during the late part of season. I do not agree with outfitter set asides. There are plenty of people that will go with outfitters that draw hunts right along with the rest of us. There is so much potential to increase the quality of the hunting experience in Montana. It is one of my favorite places even as it is!

 

[SAJ-99]

Good idea but never would work. To much of a liability and honestly most people probably can’t even run a simple fence stretcher. Why waste the ranchers time in showing someone for them just to Screw it up so it has to be redone anyways taking twice as long as before? Would be a bigger headache than the phone calls in the fall

Well, most of isn't exactly brain surgery.

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

Well, most of isn't exactly brain surgery.

A few years back I taught 5 folks how to use a t-post puller on a fence removal project.

I ended up removing 95% of the posts myself...

 

[SAJ-99]

A few years back I taught 5 folks how to use a t-post puller on a fence removal project.

I ended up removing 95% of the posts myself...

There are a couple of ways I could look at that...

The idea that "this job is too hard" is ridiculous. I have seen some complete crap jobs on fences and gates across the state. Seems hard for it to get any worse using people willing to lend a hand. If so, then they can go back to complain about how hard it is and how long the days are and that hunters only want access and don't want to help.

 

[Hem]

I don't see it changing for the better.
The majority of the resident hunters are oblivious to how things stand currently and how our politicians control our destiny. Some sort of broad based information packet needs to be issued by a faction which doesn't alarm people one way or another.
Biologists should have the final say.
Raise fees for residents, decrease non residents. Implement units for growth of trophy status animals. Shorten seasons.
All previously discussed time and again.
I keep speculating that no matter what, Montana faces a losing battle based upon the fact we are 35% public land and 65% private....opposite of Wyoming and Idaho.
Hate to be pessimistic. The damage has been done and likely can't be corrected in 20 years. The projected population growth won't help either.

 

[brockel]

There are a couple of ways I could look at that...

The idea that "this job is too hard" is ridiculous. I have seen some complete crap jobs on fences and gates across the state. Seems hard for it to get any worse using people willing to lend a hand. If so, then they can go back to complain about how hard it is and how long the days are and that hunters only want access and don't want to help.

I don’t know if you know many ranchers but each one has a particular way they want something done. It’s definitely not a “crap job” by someone they don’t hardly know

 

[mtmuley]

Doesn't surprise me SAJ-99 had to youtube a fence stretcher. Part of the problem maybe. mtmuley

 

[Treeshark]

Montana will be better off with transferable landowner permits, especially for elk.

 

[brockel]

Montana will be better off with transferable landowner permits, especially for elk.

Better off for who?

 

[SAJ-99]

I don’t know if you know many ranchers but each one has a particular way they want something done. It’s definitely not a “crap job” by someone they don’t hardly know

Can't argue with that. If that is the case, and none of them really want help, then the only solution is money and nothing will ever change in Montana. Any other solution requires one group to win and another to lose, so the fights will continue.

 

[Treeshark]

Better off for who?

Everyone that I can think of.

-Montana Landowners
-Montana Resident DIY hunters using public land
-Non-hunting Montana Residents
-Nonresidents

 

[Nameless Range]

No one knows, but actual solutions for improvement and navigating the future exist, even in this thread. I will say there is a vanity in despair, and often a bitterness in cynicism, whether it is masquerading as wisdom or truly felt.


When the Clark Fork River was poisoned and fishless for half a century, I would think a thought of what 20 years in the future held would have been justifiably pessimistic.

Have you ever read, K. Ross Toole's, "The Rape of The Great Plains"? He legitimately had a concern that eastern Montana would become a wasteland for energy, and an argument could be made today that it is the last stronghold of old Montana.

When in the early part of the 20th century, Elers Koch rode across a quarter of the wildest chunks of Montana and barely crossed paths with a deer track, he would have been justified in predicting extinction or at least extirpation of ungulates in the state 20 years from then. Hell, we didn't have a hunting season for decades.

Read about Montana before placer mining was banned, read the forester John. B. Taylor's despair against the Bureau of Reclamation, when 3x the dams that are on the landscape now were planned. I ain't above flinching away from despair myself, but I believe what we need more than anything is a positive vision for the future if we are to have a chance at all, lest we start to resemble those sad sacks who sit in the corner and bitch about climate change or any manner of thing they deem unbeatable.


TlDr: The future is very difficult to predict. We are gonna win some and we are gonna lose some, and we aren't that special..

 

[Glaze]

This has been an interesting thread. Are there articles that she'd more light on the downturn of the hunting situation in MT. I'm green to the state's hunting situation, but I'd like to learn more.

 

[brockel]

This has been an interesting thread. Are there articles that she'd more light on the downturn of the hunting situation in MT. I'm green to the state's hunting situation, but I'd like to learn more.

Stick around you will find out. Search eastern Montana on here or any Montana thread

 

[RobertD]

This has been an interesting thread. Are there articles that she'd more light on the downturn of the hunting situation in MT. I'm green to the state's hunting situation, but I'd like to learn more.

Reading through MT specific threads on this site will expose you to a lot of native Montanans' thinking on the subject.

 

[Gerald Martin]

No one knows, but actual solutions for improvement and navigating the future exist, even in this thread. I will say there is a vanity in despair, and often a bitterness in cynicism, whether it is masquerading as wisdom or truly felt.


When the Clark Fork River was poisoned and fishless for half a century, I would think a thought of what 20 years in the future held would have been justifiably pessimistic.

Have you ever read, K. Ross Toole's, "The Rape of The Great Plains"? He legitimately had a concern that eastern Montana would become a wasteland for energy, and an argument could be made today that it is the last stronghold of old Montana.

When in the early part of the 20th century, Elers Koch rode across a quarter of the wildest chunks of Montana and barely crossed paths with a deer track, he would have been justified in predicting extinction or at least extirpation of ungulates in the state 20 years from then. Hell, we didn't have a hunting season for decades.

Read about Montana before placer mining was banned, read the forester John. B. Taylor's despair against the Bureau of Reclamation, when 3x the dams that are on the landscape now were planned. I ain't above flinching away from despair myself, but I believe what we need more than anything is a positive vision for the future if we are to have a chance at all, lest we start to resemble those sad sacks who sit in the corner and bitch about climate change or any manner of thing they deem unbeatable.


TlDr: The future is very difficult to predict. We are gonna win some and we are gonna lose some, and we aren't that special..

My vision for hunting in MT over the next 20 years is for passionate, engaged people to continue to work for the good of our wildlife resources and equitable access to those resources. I am sure we will have setbacks and what now passes for “opportunity” will have to decrease to a level that is sustainable.

 

[antlerradar]

Why does there need to be an outfitter pool? I’m a big fan of capitalism, therefore I Think that healthy competition for the available customer base of 17,000 big game combos makes for a more robust outfitting industry. Those who provide good service, that have strong reputations will survive, while the shadier ones, and the industry is full of those, may go out of business.

I do a little guiding for an outfitter in Arizona. The last couple of years we have taken over 50% of the nonresident sheep tag holders hunting. There are no outfitter set asides in Arizona, these people just hire us due to the reputation he has built.

I think it is a little unfair to compare outfitters in Arizona to those in Montana. Outfitters in Arizona have a business model that relies on getting clients with close to once in a lifetime tags to harvest a once in a lifetime type of trophy. Montana's outfitters have a business model that relies on opportunity. In order for Montana's outfitter to succeed with the Arizona business model, Montana is going to have to give out tags the way Arizona does.

 

[antlerradar]

Great idea we’ve had hunters shoot a hole in one of our water tanks. Be good to see the other side that doesn’t trespass and take dumps all over the approaches during November.

The reason I prefer to only use old tires as water tanks.