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rwc101
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Nobody is offended, but you're really showing your hand.
Virginia Gun Rights Rally
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Nobody is offended, but you're really showing your hand.
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Deleted member 28227
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Laws would have to be specifically tailored to each location, but generally speaking improving education, access to resources, and economic development.
Not offended. I’m just saying those laws are going to happen whether they stay out there for a day or a week. We are a day late and a dollar short. Instead of constantly pushing for expanding our firearm rights such as suppressors or NFA items we celebrate like a A drunk sailor when we get to keep our Standard capacity magazines.
Part of the problem is we put so much faith into organizations like the NRA only to learn that they are just as corrupt, power hungry, and greedy as Bloomberg.
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3855WIN
Well-known member
California has made it hard to purchase hunting ammunition. Virginia is trying to take the hunting tool away from teens. Yet we have a lot of posters that still beat the liberal drum. Sad.
I think those three things would be a great start but the issue always comes up as who pays for it. I could think of a few foreign countries I would like to cut off and send that money to those locations but we all know that ain’t gonna happen either. The situations and places like Chicago are so complicated and have such a long history I don’t know if we will ever figure it out but I truly hope someone does.
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Nick87
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Looking for more of a specific example I guess?
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rwc101
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It's sad if that's the only way you can interpret criticism of some people at these types of rallies.
Little Big Man MT Chris
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Also forgot to mention this earlier which I find an important piece of info I read this morning as parts of Virginia have now come out and declared themselves “ 2nd amendment sanctuary counties “ and will not recognize what’s laws are being passed at state capitol , using the door that was opened across the country by other liberal run cities calling themselves sanctuary cities and refusing to cooperate with federal government and ignoring any requests for help arresting non citizens who have committed crimes in America .
Addicting
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Umm, last time I read it, I must of missed that part. A show of force is not the right to bear arms. A show of force is a tatical maneuver that escalates the situation. No one needs that, we’re you around for the Cuban Missile days. We are lucky that ended peacefully.
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Deleted member 28227
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There is a ripple effect to everything. I certainly don't have all the answers, I punted with "tailored to each location" because it would take someone with detailed knowledge of Chicago to figure out how to alleviate some of the problems there.
I think generally what Ben was driving at is that if you vote consistently against property tax increases, mil levy's, education bonds, etc. eventually that is going to catch up with you... and likely in ways you didn't expect. Perhaps with a increase in gun violence that leads to public frustration and a cry for guns to be band.
It's hard to be specific, because the conditions that lead to the situation we arrived in today are a result of hundreds of laws that were enacted over decades. You aren't going to reverse that with one sweeping law, and it won't happen quickly.
I will try, in the context of Aurora where I live. Repeal CO's Tabor law. Get rid of charter schools and vouchers and create a per pupil tax on private schools. Up the city minimum wage for Denver and Aurora. Devote more money to public transit in low income neighborhoods and subsidize the cost of a ticket.
... these would be a start...
This is a great listen/read.
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Irrelevant
Well-known member
Nothing will make me want to vote for more restrictions than the idea of having to be lumped in with you. You destroy all right, at least you got that right.
As Renella says, we need to get rid of those shooting holes in the boat. Here's your life jacket, now get out.
Here's my list:
1.) The vast majority of gun deaths come from suicide in the United States. That stems from lack of access to healthcare, including mental health care. Single -payer or medicaid for all helps reduce that. If we truly believe that it's not the gun, but the person using it, then let's give our citizens the ability to get the help they need w/o the stigma associated w/mental health issues. This can be done at the state and national level
2.) Inner city gun violence is largely driven by poverty & a perceived lack of mobility out of impoverished areas. Free college or collegiate investment programs w/civil service payback opportunities, especially to vocational institutions where people can learn trades, would help reduce the perception that violence is the best way out of a bad economic situation while giving people the tools to lift themselves out of poverty. There are programs in states like Wyoming, Kentucky, etc that help achieve these goals with significant success in lifting people at risk due to economic insecurity into a place where they have the opportunity to make a better living.
3.) Economic development in impoverished rural areas: Through various tax incentives & workforce education programs, we can entice employers to move into rural areas which often times have lower costs of living for employees w/higher standards of living. In a digital economy, place doesn't matter so much as your quality of workforce, and remote working is a real thing these days.
4.) Gun violence on reservations is directly attributed to poverty, substance abuse & domestic violence, so having specific programs for Indian healthcare reform, increased access to healthcare & also better educational opportunities in tribal colleges & off-reservation can go a long way towards reducing gun violence, as well as investments in cultural programs that teach young residents about their past and providing economic incentives for native-owned businesses can help reduce gun violence.
5.) Fund & enforce existing laws: NCIS background checks often times lead to no sale for people who trip the trigger, but the follow up isn't necessarily there in terms of contacting the violator & making arrests as needed. We have some very thoughtful approaches to gun laws in the U.S., but we don't always provide the funding to LEO's to enforce them. It's time to do that.
1.) The vast majority of gun deaths come from suicide in the United States. That stems from lack of access to healthcare, including mental health care. Single -payer or medicaid for all helps reduce that. If we truly believe that it's not the gun, but the person using it, then let's give our citizens the ability to get the help they need w/o the stigma associated w/mental health issues. This can be done at the state and national level
2.) Inner city gun violence is largely driven by poverty & a perceived lack of mobility out of impoverished areas. Free college or collegiate investment programs w/civil service payback opportunities, especially to vocational institutions where people can learn trades, would help reduce the perception that violence is the best way out of a bad economic situation while giving people the tools to lift themselves out of poverty. There are programs in states like Wyoming, Kentucky, etc that help achieve these goals with significant success in lifting people at risk due to economic insecurity into a place where they have the opportunity to make a better living.
3.) Economic development in impoverished rural areas: Through various tax incentives & workforce education programs, we can entice employers to move into rural areas which often times have lower costs of living for employees w/higher standards of living. In a digital economy, place doesn't matter so much as your quality of workforce, and remote working is a real thing these days.
4.) Gun violence on reservations is directly attributed to poverty, substance abuse & domestic violence, so having specific programs for Indian healthcare reform, increased access to healthcare & also better educational opportunities in tribal colleges & off-reservation can go a long way towards reducing gun violence, as well as investments in cultural programs that teach young residents about their past and providing economic incentives for native-owned businesses can help reduce gun violence.
5.) Fund & enforce existing laws: NCIS background checks often times lead to no sale for people who trip the trigger, but the follow up isn't necessarily there in terms of contacting the violator & making arrests as needed. We have some very thoughtful approaches to gun laws in the U.S., but we don't always provide the funding to LEO's to enforce them. It's time to do that.
Nick87
Well-known member
Right, it will be several laws and tons of money spent (again that wont be followed by criminals because they wont be enforced).
With this logic, we shouldn't have any laws because criminals will not follow them.
No private property laws
No murder laws
No B&E laws
You're advocating for anarchy. Is that really what you want?
Nick87
Well-known member
No not at all I'd like to see the laws we have enforced for a period of time before we go and dump more time and money into laws that also wont be enforced.
100% there w/you on that.
D
Deleted member 28227
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I'm not an advocate for any additional regulations on firearms, I do agree with Ben's last point.
Having a ton of people in poverty, harms everyone in our society.
Nick87
Well-known member
Everytime illinois passes a new gun law to curb gun violence all law abiding citizens give up a little more. Meanwhile the gun violence in that dump claims a little more or stays the same at the least. That's all I was getting at.
Chicago is an interesting citiy. It's been violent since it was founded, but the problems today stem largely from the migration to large urban centers in the 1940's-1970's and the ensuring loss of economic mobility in those classes after the meltdown of the 1970,s & 80's. We're still dealing with the effects of rural depopulation into cities where there were jobs for the masses, and people could make a living wage working jobs that didn't require a ton of training. That economy is gone, yet we cling to the basic civic structures that empower poverty rather than mobility.
As far as guns go, Chicago is a great example of how not to approach gun control. You cannot stem the flow of firearms into that city because everywhere surrounding it is acting as the importer through straw purchases (Again - enforce existing laws!). I don't think you will ever stop the flow of illegal firearms into major metropolitan centers, so we have to remove the perceived need for them. Cut the demand, and the supply dries up.
1. Agree 100% unfortunately with my work I have to have interaction with the mental health system. I will put it politely, it is extremely broken.
2. Cross out the (free college) and I think that sounds like a great start.
3.Sounds like a pretty solid idea
4. I have to take your word for it on number four as I have little to no knowledge about the issues plaguing Native Americans on reservations and the government programs that affect them or possibly hold them down
5. I agree with in theory. The problem though, at least initially, cracking down on gun laws is going to have more effect on the on the areas affected by poverty and hopelessness.
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