Unreconcilable?

[Elkmagnet]

I shouldn't have anything to say about willing buyer willing seller transactions be it the APR or Wilks development llc.
Reminds me of Judy Boyles no net loss bill 586. Some conservatives only hold conservive values for their desired outcome. I told her to her face that she had no right to decide who I can sell my property to.

Most Land Transfer Bills Stall in Idaho Legislature

BOISE • Several bills designed to increase state and local control of federal public lands were introduced in Boise this year, plus a resolution calling on the state to preserve

magicvalley.com

 

[Elkmagnet]

How many other buyers are offering the appraised value, not many. So their purchases delay appraised value adjustments.

Are locals looking forward to negative adjustments?

 

[406dn]

Are locals looking forward to negative adjustments?

Likely not.

I do not envy them with the challenges they face making it work. This year has been pretty tough on many of them.

 

[Elkmagnet]

The gap between beef prices and cattle prices is crazy. Ribeyes at the store here are $17 per pound. I just bought 20# of ribeye and 20# of t bones for $6.50 and $5.50 per pound at a local butcher shop.
That needs fixed

 

[SAJ-99]

The gap between beef prices and cattle prices is crazy. Ribeyes at the store here are $17 per pound. I just bought 20# of ribeye and 20# of t bones for $6.50 and $5.50 per pound at a local butcher shop.
That needs fixed

Processor oligopoly. Current Admin threatened to crack down and use anti trust. We will see. I’m sure if it happened every rancher would celebrate, hunters should as well. But either way, APR is not the problem.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Processor oligopoly. Current Admin threatened to crack down and use anti trust. We will see. I’m sure if it happened every rancher would celebrate, hunters should as well. But either way, APR is not the problem.

Producers are starting to get together and build processing plants also.

 

[BWALKER77]

But UPOM scare tactics and lies are ok? APR at least seems upfront with their goal.

How would you connect those dots?

 

[BWALKER77]

Producers are starting to get together and build processing plants also.

Drop in the bucket.

 

[Beignet]

Margaret appears to be a small time wing nut grifter. Seems to be a lot these types out there these days.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to take much to make the jump from small time to the big time these days.

 

[SAJ-99]

How would you connect those dots?

What dots?

Drop in the bucket.

But those that elect that route capture some of the financial benefit from that part of the value chain. You might not see it at the store, but it certainly benefits those producers. Good for them. Capitalism at work.

 

[BigHornRam]

Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to take much to make the jump from small time to the big time these days.

Most wingnuts stay irrelevant and eventually go away. 20 people showed up to listen to this wingnut according to the article. Not sure why the NYT and USA Today are concerning themselves with this? Plenty of more pressing issues today to write about than this.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben, I am happy to see you recognize tourism as the economic loser that it is. That's why it's important for MT to have things like ample timber harvests, mining, oil refining etc that support living wage jobs.
Maybe I am crazy, but I don't think any of these activities are problematic if done right. In the case of timber harvest they are greatly beneficial to the game we hunt and are greatly needed in Montana.

Tourism is part of a diversified economic portfolio for most states. It isn't a loser per se, but it's not going to replace any other industry relative to union scale wages & quality of life for the working classes. Even at $15 an hour, affording to live in a desirable western town is going to be problematic. That's also why you see so many migrant or foriegn workers in those positions around National Parks, etc. They work cheaper than Americans.

Similarly, declining industries like coal mining shouldn't be counted on to save the west either. The traditional boom & bust economics of states like Wyoming don't do much in relation to workers longevity or financial security. Those workers remain at will in a lot of instances unless there's a union backing them up, and even then, they're subjected to lay offs, lost wages and reduced hours based on the overall economic outlook for their industries. I grew up in O&G & mining with my family working those jobs, as well as asphalt paving, I've seen this happen in my own extended family for almost 50 years.

Tech industry, healthcare and finance are the major economic drivers in MT right now, for example. Refinery jobs are great for the most part and pay really well, and pipeline workers usually do well too, but that work is just as susceptible to layoffs and such. Hertz is likely to order around 100,000 electric cars, and that signals a huge shift in thinking among business towards electric vehicles, putting the idea of more refineries at serious risk.

Timber has always been a rough industry to make a living in unless you were at a mill that had suitable supply of private land logs. Plus, mechanization of all of those manual labor dependent industries is creating fewer jobs and more profit than the previous generations, not to mention to political back and forth on it all.

If we're honest with ourselves, then we look forward to emerging technologies and economies and not simply put all of our eggs in one basket or another. Following the old way of seeking industry and jobs means we lose the next tech war or jobs movement.

Roundup is a good example of changing with the times to bring industry to rural America: https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14...et-package-delivery-sales-tax-montana-roundup

 

[BWALKER77]

Tourism is part of a diversified economic portfolio for most states. It isn't a loser per se, but it's not going to replace any other industry relative to union scale wages & quality of life for the working classes. Even at $15 an hour, affording to live in a desirable western town is going to be problematic. That's also why you see so many migrant or foriegn workers in those positions around National Parks, etc. They work cheaper than Americans.

Similarly, declining industries like coal mining shouldn't be counted on to save the west either. The traditional boom & bust economics of states like Wyoming don't do much in relation to workers longevity or financial security. Those workers remain at will in a lot of instances unless there's a union backing them up, and even then, they're subjected to lay offs, lost wages and reduced hours based on the overall economic outlook for their industries. I grew up in O&G & mining with my family working those jobs, as well as asphalt paving.

Tech industry, healthcare and finance are the major economic drivers in MT right now, for example. Refinery jobs are great for the most part and pay really well, and pipeline workers usually do well too, but that work is just as susceptible to layoffs and such. Hertz is likely to order around 100,000 electric cars, and that signals a huge shift in thinking among business towards electric vehicles, putting the idea of more refineries at serious risk.

Timber has always been a rough industry to make a living in unless you were at a mill that had suitable supply of private land logs. Plus, mechanization of all of those manual labor dependent industries is creating fewer jobs and more profit than the previous generations, not to mention to political back and forth on it all.

If we're honest with ourselves, then we look forward to emerging technologies and economies and not simply put all of our eggs in one basket or another. Following the old way of seeking industry and jobs means we lose the next tech war or jobs movement.

Roundup is a good example of changing with the times to bring industry to rural America: https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14...et-package-delivery-sales-tax-montana-roundup

If round up is a good example of the future economy we don't want it!

 

[BWALKER77]

What dots?


But those that elect that route capture some of the financial benefit from that part of the value chain. You might not see it at the store, but it certainly benefits those producers. Good for them. Capitalism at work.

What's needed is anti trust proceedings and on several industries.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If round up is a good example of the future economy we don't want it!

I mean, the folks in Roundup working those jobs probably disagree, right?

We can wish & hope for those traditional economic factors to continue to work, but it didn't play out too well for the livery stables or whale oil companies.

 

[406dn]

I do enjoy how thread evolve into different discussions than the original thread.

Regarding refining... I made my living and retirement working in one. If you are hired as a company employee...not a contractor... there is little chance you will face a layoff or a cut in hours.

Even absent electric vehicles, a new refinery being built is pretty remote. It is more efficient for a refinery to expand its capacity than building a refinery from the ground up. If you look at the three refineries in the Billings area, they were all built at roughly the same time. It was a different time and that would never happen with today's rules, regulations and economic realities.

Like the lumber industry, the refining industry has cut jobs by figuring out how to do more with less. During an off shift, people would be surprised how few people are running the refinery.

Round Up has always left me a bit depressed anytime I travel thru. Their row to hoe is tougher than most.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I do enjoy how thread evolve into different discussions than the original thread.

Regarding refining... I made my living and retirement working in one. If you are hired as a company employee...not a contractor... there is little chance you will face a layoff or a cut in hours.

Even absent electric vehicles, a new refinery being built is pretty remote. It is more efficient for a refinery to expand its capacity than building a refinery from the ground up. If you look at the three refineries in the Billings area, they were all built at roughly the same time. It was a different time and that would never happen with today's rules, regulations and economic realities.

Like the lumber industry, the refining industry has cut jobs by figuring out how to do more with less. During an off shift, people would be surprised how few people are running the refinery.

Round Up has always left me a bit depressed anytime I travel thru. Their row to hoe is tougher than most.

I tend to think that the economic discussion is large part of why there is so much resistance in rural areas to these issues. In fact, I've been point blank told that by leaders of this movement.

Until we figure out a way for all of us to be lifted by a rising tide, the conflict merchants will always find fertile ground for their hate.

 

[BWALKER77]

I mean, the folks in Roundup working those jobs probably disagree, right?

We can wish & hope for those traditional economic factors to continue to work, but it didn't play out too well for the livery stables or whale oil companies.

Those jobs are well under 20 an hour. Refineries you have to try to make less than 100k a year and the one I work at hasn't had lay offs in decades.
And your obsolescence argument is comparing apples to orange. Whale oil wasn't forced to go by the wayside due rabid enviros. Same story with coal. Coal is by far the best way to make electricity. It's going away due to politics.

 

[Irrelevant]

Coal is by far the best way to make electricity.

Nope.
Hydro
Nuclear
...Fusion

 

[BWALKER77]

Nope.
Hydro
Nuclear
...Fusion

Hydro is subject to rainfall. Nuclear is incredibly expensive and fusion generation doesn't exist.