Pucky Freak
Well-known member
Imagine you are standing in a room with the persons you are talking to online...You will speak a little differently for your benefit and the benefit of everyone else.
The REAL (REASONS) hunting is declining
- Thread starter Elk Bugler
- Start date
AvidIndoorsman
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VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Sincerely in the spirit of good natured ribbing common to the hunter culture (particularly dosed out to the young by the old), a culture you are just beginning to join . . . . your use of numbers in this response made me laugh
- You left me hanging, were did the other 5% go? And if you have hunted 4 seasons and went 4 for 4, how could you be 99% right? 
Roughwater
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Quote
"So enough about me here are the reasons that I personally believe are most detrimental to the hunting community.
(Lack of access to land/perceived lack of access to land.) While it is very true that the days of knocking on a door and asking a member of your community if you can hunt his land is pretty much over, the small property owners don't want people on their property for liability reasons or percived liability reasons and all the large property owners either lease their land to a wealthy individual, a club with a ridiculous membership fee (I'm talking $1000 plus a year) or even hunting product companies to film shows on. And before people start saying that I'm bashing rich people and large companies I'm not and if you can pay 5 grand a year to lease a big property good for you but just know by doing so you're taking away opportunities from other people to hunt the same property. 20 people probably hunted farmer Ed's 1000 acres before it was leased in exchange for help and other favors. Not blaming anybody it's just reality. The next part of this equation is public land. While there is less public land than there was 10 years ago and even less than there was 20 years ago there's still plenty of public land in this country to hunt. (With few exceptions). My heart does go out to those in places like Iowa or Mississippi where there is next to no public land, however there is still some public land to hunt, but in most states access to public land is not as much of an issue as people make it out to be. And yes I'm guilty of exaggerating how hard it is to hunt public land as much as the next guy, however I don't do this anymore because this discourages going people like myself. When I was in high school I was one of the only people to hunt public land if not the only one, the other kids thought public land wasn't worth the time and that is problematic because once these kids graduate and move away, or go to college in another state they're going to stop hunting because they believe public land isn't worth it. There are a few states with very little public land but they are the exception most states have plenty of state forests, parks, national forests, wildlife management areas and a litany of other land open to hunting. We in the United States are blessed with so many millions of acres of public land to recreate on and this makes us unique to the rest of the world (yes I know Canada has similar "crown land"). Public land hunting can be hard and it is definitely harder than private land and there is definitely no comparison to a 1000 acre Illinois "trophy buck" lease, however not all is lost. I used to be one of those people who thought "hunting public land is impossible" and "not worth the effort" but this didn't stop me from trying harder each time. There are a litany of studies that show the vast majority of hunters will not venture more than a 1/3 of a mile from the road. What does this mean? The vast majority of public land especially the big tracts are relatively free from hunting pressure or face light pressure. Studies have also disproven the myth that "all public land deer migrate to private land during deer season" this is not even close to being true, whitetail deer are loyal to their range and simply move deeper into less pressured parts of public land with thicker cover when the pressure gets high. If you put in the work and venture deep into public land you will most likely be successful and I know this first hand. When I hunt public (which is what I hunt most) I go at least a mile in and that is why I'm much more successful than the other guys that set up near the parking lot. My point is if you put in the work you will be successful! This doesn't just pertain to hunting it pertains to everything in life, you don't get far unless you work hard.
(The social media hunters, the online trolls, and cyber bullies) I'm grouping all of these groups together because they have the same effect on young hunters for the most part. Everybody knows the kind of "hunter" I'm talking about, the trust fund kid who acts hyper masculine to compensate for his insecurity and thinks he's all that because daddy gave him money to shoot a 180 inch outfitted land buck or even worse a high fence pet and then brags on social media about it and shames other people often times teens and younger for shooting a doe or young buck. This behavior is detrimental and absolutely needs to stop we need to recruit teenagers and young kids into the hunting community and it doesn't matter if you shoot a doe, spike, monster buck, or an average buck, if you're out there having fun and contributing to conservation it doesn't matter what kind of deer you shoot as long as you follow all the regulations. There are great social media hunters out there that do wonders for the hunting community, however if you go in Instagram and see "trophy bucks" and "trophy elk" all day it gives young hunters unrealistic expectations which is also negative. It's just like teenagers being insecure because everyone on Instagram is a super model or body builder. Anti hunters, trolls, and cyber bullies have the same effect on young hunters as the (bad) social media hunters (and they're fans that shame hunters) they shame hunters for being ethical hunters just because they didn't shoot that 1/100 monster buck. Teenagers and young people live on social media and if they are shamed for being hunters it's a driving factor to stop hunting or more likely never even start hunting all together.
(Video games and Tv) this is pretty straight forward, we live in an instant gratification culture and TV and video games provide just that. It's scientifically proven that playing video games produces pleasure in our brains, most young people these days are so addicted to video games it's like a drug to them. Why sit in a treestand on a hot day or track deer through the snow in 10 degrees and probably not even bring a deer home when you can play video games all day with no effort involved and have a lot of fun.
(Decline of rural America and increase in urbanization and suburbanization) more Americans are moving to major cities or metro areas and suburbs and not having a chance to even go hiking let alone hunting or fishing in the city, hunters for the most part are looked upon and seen as a bunch of "gun toting rednecks) or some other ignorant slur. Ironically from my experience the hunters I have met who traveled from the city to where I live to hunt have all been immigrants from Communist Asian or former Soviet republics for them I think it has something to do with the feeling of freedom hunting gives you but I digress. Urbanization is killing young hunter's opportunities before they even start."
[/QUOTE]
Hi Elk Bugler,
I'm an old guy for what it's worth, but I'm really impressed by what you have written especially considering your age. Every generation wants to be the one that changes the word for the better but I feel like my generation wasn't that one. If anything I think it got worse in many ways. I didn't grow up in a hunting family. We were poor and lived on the edge of a small city. My dad did fish though which I much enjoyed. I just naturally loved the outdoors when I was young so the outdoors felt like a necessary part of my souls health. I can see that you are like that and though I don't think there are many like you it still gives me hope that the call of the wild hasn't totally fell on deaf ears. There are certainly others like you. A young working father that just started a Archery Elk Hunting blog who calls himself Baxter Bowman. He's a tri-athlete, hunter and somewhat of a self made outdoor guy (though I'm sure his hunting father had some influence).
I feel that we older guys didn't do our part as much as we could to help younger hunters but it's never to late to start. As to their being more or less available public land to hunt we really need to be wary of any efforts to sell or give away public land. We can't bring back what was lost but we can fight to save what their is. Their has been a push by some states to acquire federal public land but I fear what might happen to it if that happens. Also we all as hunters should support organizations such as the RMEF and the Land conservatory in any way you can. The RMEF has been working hard for years to acquire private land unselfishly that ultimately becomes public lands for use by all. The lands they acquire have helped unlock millions of acres to public access over the years.
That said Elk Bugler, keep doing what your doing. We all need to try to encourage young hunters in what ever big or small ways we can.
"So enough about me here are the reasons that I personally believe are most detrimental to the hunting community.
(Lack of access to land/perceived lack of access to land.) While it is very true that the days of knocking on a door and asking a member of your community if you can hunt his land is pretty much over, the small property owners don't want people on their property for liability reasons or percived liability reasons and all the large property owners either lease their land to a wealthy individual, a club with a ridiculous membership fee (I'm talking $1000 plus a year) or even hunting product companies to film shows on. And before people start saying that I'm bashing rich people and large companies I'm not and if you can pay 5 grand a year to lease a big property good for you but just know by doing so you're taking away opportunities from other people to hunt the same property. 20 people probably hunted farmer Ed's 1000 acres before it was leased in exchange for help and other favors. Not blaming anybody it's just reality. The next part of this equation is public land. While there is less public land than there was 10 years ago and even less than there was 20 years ago there's still plenty of public land in this country to hunt. (With few exceptions). My heart does go out to those in places like Iowa or Mississippi where there is next to no public land, however there is still some public land to hunt, but in most states access to public land is not as much of an issue as people make it out to be. And yes I'm guilty of exaggerating how hard it is to hunt public land as much as the next guy, however I don't do this anymore because this discourages going people like myself. When I was in high school I was one of the only people to hunt public land if not the only one, the other kids thought public land wasn't worth the time and that is problematic because once these kids graduate and move away, or go to college in another state they're going to stop hunting because they believe public land isn't worth it. There are a few states with very little public land but they are the exception most states have plenty of state forests, parks, national forests, wildlife management areas and a litany of other land open to hunting. We in the United States are blessed with so many millions of acres of public land to recreate on and this makes us unique to the rest of the world (yes I know Canada has similar "crown land"). Public land hunting can be hard and it is definitely harder than private land and there is definitely no comparison to a 1000 acre Illinois "trophy buck" lease, however not all is lost. I used to be one of those people who thought "hunting public land is impossible" and "not worth the effort" but this didn't stop me from trying harder each time. There are a litany of studies that show the vast majority of hunters will not venture more than a 1/3 of a mile from the road. What does this mean? The vast majority of public land especially the big tracts are relatively free from hunting pressure or face light pressure. Studies have also disproven the myth that "all public land deer migrate to private land during deer season" this is not even close to being true, whitetail deer are loyal to their range and simply move deeper into less pressured parts of public land with thicker cover when the pressure gets high. If you put in the work and venture deep into public land you will most likely be successful and I know this first hand. When I hunt public (which is what I hunt most) I go at least a mile in and that is why I'm much more successful than the other guys that set up near the parking lot. My point is if you put in the work you will be successful! This doesn't just pertain to hunting it pertains to everything in life, you don't get far unless you work hard.
(The social media hunters, the online trolls, and cyber bullies) I'm grouping all of these groups together because they have the same effect on young hunters for the most part. Everybody knows the kind of "hunter" I'm talking about, the trust fund kid who acts hyper masculine to compensate for his insecurity and thinks he's all that because daddy gave him money to shoot a 180 inch outfitted land buck or even worse a high fence pet and then brags on social media about it and shames other people often times teens and younger for shooting a doe or young buck. This behavior is detrimental and absolutely needs to stop we need to recruit teenagers and young kids into the hunting community and it doesn't matter if you shoot a doe, spike, monster buck, or an average buck, if you're out there having fun and contributing to conservation it doesn't matter what kind of deer you shoot as long as you follow all the regulations. There are great social media hunters out there that do wonders for the hunting community, however if you go in Instagram and see "trophy bucks" and "trophy elk" all day it gives young hunters unrealistic expectations which is also negative. It's just like teenagers being insecure because everyone on Instagram is a super model or body builder. Anti hunters, trolls, and cyber bullies have the same effect on young hunters as the (bad) social media hunters (and they're fans that shame hunters) they shame hunters for being ethical hunters just because they didn't shoot that 1/100 monster buck. Teenagers and young people live on social media and if they are shamed for being hunters it's a driving factor to stop hunting or more likely never even start hunting all together.
(Video games and Tv) this is pretty straight forward, we live in an instant gratification culture and TV and video games provide just that. It's scientifically proven that playing video games produces pleasure in our brains, most young people these days are so addicted to video games it's like a drug to them. Why sit in a treestand on a hot day or track deer through the snow in 10 degrees and probably not even bring a deer home when you can play video games all day with no effort involved and have a lot of fun.
(Decline of rural America and increase in urbanization and suburbanization) more Americans are moving to major cities or metro areas and suburbs and not having a chance to even go hiking let alone hunting or fishing in the city, hunters for the most part are looked upon and seen as a bunch of "gun toting rednecks) or some other ignorant slur. Ironically from my experience the hunters I have met who traveled from the city to where I live to hunt have all been immigrants from Communist Asian or former Soviet republics for them I think it has something to do with the feeling of freedom hunting gives you but I digress. Urbanization is killing young hunter's opportunities before they even start."
[/QUOTE]
Hi Elk Bugler,
I'm an old guy for what it's worth, but I'm really impressed by what you have written especially considering your age. Every generation wants to be the one that changes the word for the better but I feel like my generation wasn't that one. If anything I think it got worse in many ways. I didn't grow up in a hunting family. We were poor and lived on the edge of a small city. My dad did fish though which I much enjoyed. I just naturally loved the outdoors when I was young so the outdoors felt like a necessary part of my souls health. I can see that you are like that and though I don't think there are many like you it still gives me hope that the call of the wild hasn't totally fell on deaf ears. There are certainly others like you. A young working father that just started a Archery Elk Hunting blog who calls himself Baxter Bowman. He's a tri-athlete, hunter and somewhat of a self made outdoor guy (though I'm sure his hunting father had some influence).
I feel that we older guys didn't do our part as much as we could to help younger hunters but it's never to late to start. As to their being more or less available public land to hunt we really need to be wary of any efforts to sell or give away public land. We can't bring back what was lost but we can fight to save what their is. Their has been a push by some states to acquire federal public land but I fear what might happen to it if that happens. Also we all as hunters should support organizations such as the RMEF and the Land conservatory in any way you can. The RMEF has been working hard for years to acquire private land unselfishly that ultimately becomes public lands for use by all. The lands they acquire have helped unlock millions of acres to public access over the years.
That said Elk Bugler, keep doing what your doing. We all need to try to encourage young hunters in what ever big or small ways we can.
mountainhawks
Active member
I'm not sure if this is real or not? If you've unlocked the code from just being online and 4 years of experience I'm truly impressed. I've been at it for 26ish years and still don't consider it "easy." You should make a youtube video
AvidIndoorsman
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That's exactly where I'm at JLS, well stated.
R
rwc101
Guest
Sincerely in the spirit of good natured ribbing common to the hunter culture (particularly dosed out to the young by the old), a culture you are just beginning to join . . . . your use of numbers in this response made me laugh
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
I was thinking Yogi Berra ("90% of baseball is mental, the other half is mental")
Elk Bugler
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I would make a video but there's already so many out there. Just go in YouTube and look for Google maps scouting videos. You can learn a ton from that, find a piece of property make your predictions on where beds, food sources, deer trails, etc will be then scout in person if your predictions were right then you're doing a good job. But deer hunting is like everything else it's a science deer behave a certain way and they've behaved that way for thousands of years and they're not going to change. All you have to do is learn geography, deer behavior, and how to avoid other hunters (easy part go further than a half mile) then again people try to dismiss me for my 4 years of experience which is laughable. I've spent hundreds of days in the woods hunting probably more than a lot of people who've been at it for 15 years.I'm not sure if this is real or not? If you've unlocked the code from just being online and 4 years of experience I'm truly impressed. I've been at it for 26ish years and still don't consider it "easy." You should make a youtube video
Elk Bugler
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5 percent from various other sources... Thought that was a given
Man I thought everyone knows that there are a like 3 guys on here that know everything about everything. Hell they will even post the spread sheets and the data to prove it.To the OP. It's amazing how at 19 with 4 years of hunting experience that you know all the REAL resons hunting is in decine.
That's funny because when I was 19 I also thought I knew everything.
Thank you for sharing ALL your years of hunting knowledge or perhaps lack of it. Sour grapes maybe?
AvidIndoorsman
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VikingsGuy
Well-known member
For a hunter, a sense of humor is even more important than a sense of direction. Relax.
He definitely doesn't get the banter than I grew up hearing and being subjected to as normal...
Hundreds of days hunting in four years is quite the feat...
mountainhawks
Active member
I respect your enthusiasm and you're clearly smart but you'd do well to learn some tact. If you approach everything with the "holier than thou" attitude and leave little room for others opinions or ribbing you aren't going to get very far. Lighten up a little and realize there's a whole hell of a lot out there to learn and I promise you haven't mastered it in four years.
You make some valid points but most, if not all, of what you bring up has been brought up before. Maybe instead of "telling" us what the problems are offer up some thought out solutions in order to move the discussion forward. Regardless, I don't think any of us are solving it on an online forum today. Stay safe!
Elk Bugler
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And after that it was still running because it's a Toyota Celica
AvidIndoorsman
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And 4 deer so basically the same as buzzH...
Killed last season...
CWD and butchering
First post here, no expert or anything just a Gen Z hunter, I know a rarity nowadays. Anyway I have some questions for my elders about how you butcher deer. I've butchered 4 deer in my lifetime and when I first started I wasn't too educated on CWD, high risk parts (brain, spinal cord, lymph...
www.hunttalk.com
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
My dad's buddies (all who were really good guys when it came down to it) would have a field day with this level of touchiness.
Many years later, it was interesting to watch my son at his first hunting camp with my buddies. He started with lots of opinions about how things should go, was irritated when the boomers wouldn't listen or teased him about unrelated stuff. Was again frustrated when all the shit jobs got assigned to him early in the week. A few days in you could see the lightbulb go on - he started taking the ribbing with a laugh, jumped on some of the crappy jobs without being asked - by the end of the week he was giving back as much as he got and even the old timers were pitching in. At the end of the trip he was one of the group and grinning from ear to ear.
But to earlier remarks, the internet and youtube convey much useful information, but they do not make a hunter - only we can make a new hunter - and that takes a little give and take on both sides.
AggieHunter
Well-known member
After getting back from an elk hunt I was putting away my dad rifle and found a large trig showed in the barrel. Probably a good thing he didn't shoot at an elk.
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