The housing shortage and public lands

[TOGIE]

All this cavalier use of "evolution" is making my biology training anxious. My evolution professor would be cracking skulls by now.

cavalier on purpose i'd think. don't read into it too much.

how about i switch over to "development"?

99% of our development as a species has been in environments inconsistent with our modern way of life

 

[Otto Matic]

CycleFishHunt" -
"... No apologies needed. There was no offense taken. You’re certainly entitled to you opinions. I won’t pretend Denver is perfect. ..."

When I visited the kid in Denver, I was treated to breakfast at "The Delectable Egg" diner somewhere in the concrete canyons of downtown.
The omelet was good. The "hashbrowns", more like home fries would have been the pride of ANY southern cook! Absolutely awesome! Crispy, crunchy, thumb sized cubes of potatoes with onion bits. ! Crazy good!

 

[Irrelevant]

Right, so because of evolution & those shared human experiences, we've become mixed use users with the vast majority evolving to be city dwellers.

So evolutionarily, we're city slickers. Even Needs.

I think it's more that there are benefits to an urban life that can out way the consequences, at least for a time, an especially for those looking for work, or specialized work. But would we be seeing the mass exodus from the urban centers to rural America if humans weren't craving something that our cities can't provide?

I assume you lived in a city, a big city, at some point, something bigger than the 3k people of Helena? And why move to a few acres of rural land in Michigan instead of Traverse City? I couldn't be for the quiet, or the backyard wildlife, or the fewer neighbors.

Again, I'm not so naïve to think cities don't have their strengths, but I still believe they are contrary to the general welfare of the human condition.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I think it's more that there are benefits to an urban life that can out way the consequences, at least for a time, an especially for those looking for work, or specialized work. But would we be seeing the mass exodus from the urban centers to rural America if humans weren't craving something that our cities can't provide?

I assume you lived in a city, a big city, at some point, something bigger than the 3k people of Helena? And why move to a few acres of rural land in Michigan instead of Traverse City? I couldn't be for the quiet, or the backyard wildlife, or the fewer neighbors.

Again, I'm not so naïve to think cities don't have their strengths, but I still believe they are contrary to the general welfare of the human condition.

Listen Able, the future is in cities, just ask my son Enoch, and no one wants your smelly mutton chops.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I think it's more that there are benefits to an urban life that can out way the consequences, at least for a time, an especially for those looking for work, or specialized work. But would we be seeing the mass exodus from the urban centers to rural America if humans weren't craving something that our cities can't provide?

I assume you lived in a city, a big city, at some point, something bigger than the 3k people of Helena? And why move to a few acres of rural land in Michigan instead of Traverse City? I couldn't be for the quiet, or the backyard wildlife, or the fewer neighbors.

Again, I'm not so naïve to think cities don't have their strengths, but I still believe they are contrary to the general welfare of the human condition.

According to my wife, it's because I'm devolving.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

When I visited the kid in Denver, I was treated to breakfast at "The Delectable Egg" diner somewhere in the concrete canyons of downtown.
The omelet was good. The "hashbrowns", more like home fries would have been the pride of ANY southern cook! Absolutely awesome! Crispy, crunchy, thumb sized cubes of potatoes with onion bits. ! Crazy good!

There's one next to my work, great spot for a b-fast meeting.

I gotta go Denver Biscuit Company though as my favorite, or Annette over in Aurora.

 

[Oak]

Doesn't anybody work around here?

 

[DouglasR]

According to my wife, it's because I'm devolving.

I thought for sure you’d moved to an upstairs apartment over a one wheeled pottery studio in downtown Detroit to save the city through an art revolution.

 

[Irrelevant]

Listen Able, the future is in cities, just ask my son Enoch, and no one wants your smelly mutton chops.

I assume that's funny, but I have no reference. I just recently started reading fiction and haven't made it that far.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I assume that's funny, but I have no reference. I just recently started reading fiction and haven't made it that far.

Yeah veiled reference to a collaborative work out of Nicaea, follows the misadventures of 13 buddies running around in the desert. Though I guess technically the part I'm referencing is the preface which was written by @Gerald Martin's grom surfer.

 

[Otto Matic]

There's one next to my work, great spot for a b-fast meeting.

I gotta go Denver Biscuit Company though as my favorite, or Annette over in Aurora.

Since I don't/didn't live there, I just got the one treat.
The place was nice, but it was dark inside. No side windows, only front window was behind a baffle.
Decor was also dark.
...but what do you expect from a diner crammed between two buildings in any big downtown metro area?

The "big" thing down here now is "jimmy's egg".
Nice chain stores and "good" (not exceptional!) food but pretty expensive for what it is.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Yeah veil reference to a collaborative work out of Nicaea, follows the misadventures of 13 buddies running around in the desert. Though I guess technically the part I'm referencing is the preface which was written by @Gerald Martin's grom surfer.

You got any spreadsheets with that info?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

You got any spreadsheets with that info?

Nah but I got a lot of opinions about Akhmim codex.

 

[LuketheDog]

Doesn't anybody work around here?

I was waiting for mortar to set up...

 

[Pucky Freak]

Poll: Growing Share of Americans Would Choose Towns, Rural Areas Over Cities, Suburbs

A Gallup poll found 48% of Americans in 2020 preferred to live in towns or rural areas, compared to 39% in 2018.

www.route-fifty.com

United States - Urbanization 2020| Statista

In 2020, about 82.66 percent of the total population in the United States lived in cities and urban areas.

www.statista.com

OK so 82% of Americans (270 million people) live in urban areas but only 52% of Americans prefer to live there (172 million). 98 million Americans are ready to return to their rural roots. Maybe 1-2 million already moved because of COVID and defund the police, but apparently that’s only the tip of the tip of the iceberg. Once more people really figure out the logistics of fleeing cities I think we’ll look back at 2020-2021 as the time when internal migration was just spreading its wings.

 

[antlerradar]

After reading the last twenty five plus pages I will complain often about the negatives of were I live.
The hot dry summers
The gravel road that eat ten ply tires and leave the truck with a premiant coating of red dust.
The long cold winters with a stiff wind coming down from the north pole with nothing to stop it but a few barbwire fences.
The rattlesnakes that like to move in with you
The mosquitos a trillion strong
The grasshoppers that eat every thing in sight
the distance you need to travel just to get the basics
There are plenty of other negatives that I am missing. Eastern Montana is a terrible place to try to make a living. Anyone that finds themselves in this windblown place should just stay on I 94 and just keep driving.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I think it's more that there are benefits to an urban life that can out way the consequences, at least for a time, an especially for those looking for work, or specialized work. But would we be seeing the mass exodus from the urban centers to rural America if humans weren't craving something that our cities can't provide?

I assume you lived in a city, a big city, at some point, something bigger than the 3k people of Helena? And why move to a few acres of rural land in Michigan instead of Traverse City? I couldn't be for the quiet, or the backyard wildlife, or the fewer neighbors.

Again, I'm not so naïve to think cities don't have their strengths, but I still believe they are contrary to the general welfare of the human condition.

I think we're also seeing an bit of an exodus from urban centers because of a changing America & economy. We had the mass movement of people to urban areas during the industrial revolution, as that's where the work was, and supposedly better wages. Then we had the great migration north of folks who moved to the rust belt for heavy manufacturing (auto, etc). Now that those industries have moved overseas, there's no economic incentive to stay in regions that are lacking in quality jobs. That, coupled with the digital revolution which allows for work anywhere, I think you see people make choices to enjoy areas that are not quite as populated as major metropolitan centers, and given the cost of living in those centers (which happens when places are popular and people want to live there, ala MT real estate prices).

Helena has over 25K people, sir. And they all drive really slow. Then you have all the valley trash & bedroom communities that makes the Helena area something like 100K.

We moved to where we did because I'm devolving. We've covered this. But also, I'm 20 minutes from downtown Traverse City. It's not like I'm living in Ingomar. We're rural, sure, but it's bedroom community rural. I wouldn't say I've given up anything in terms of having town amenities, except for about 10 more minutes of drive time. Rural in the east is vastly different than rural in the west.

But this isn't evolution on a grand scale. And simply using the economic freedom provided by the digital revolution in one nation as evidence that humans haven't evolved as a species to seek security in numbers is silly.

 

[noharleyyet]

Our city is population stagnant (circa 100k) due to the steady exodus of young families moving to smaller nearby school districts. We recently passed a 300 plus mil$ school bond to replace 3 high schools with 2 new ones, but I'd bet the bids come in 20-25% over budget.

 

[TOGIE]

But this isn't evolution on a grand scale. And simply using the economic freedom provided by the digital revolution in one nation as evidence that humans haven't evolved as a species to seek security in numbers is silly.

nobody is dismissing the concept humans evolved to seek security in numbers. that is very much a fact central to this discussion.

but the equally if not more silly thing is to use economics and modern industrial advances as evidence that large, dense, loud, bright, cities are the natural healthy thing for the human brain and body and is something we evolved to live in

to me that's like saying we evolved to drive cars. no, we evolved to walk, run, jump, and climb things.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

nobody is dismissing the concept humans evolved to seek security in numbers. that is very much a fact central to this discussion.

but the equally if not more silly thing is to use economics and modern industrial advances as evidence that large, dense, loud, bright, cities are the natural healthy thing for the human brain and body and is something we evolved to live in

to me that's like saying we evolved to drive cars. no, we evolved to walk, run, jump, and climb things.

Resistance is Futile

... also