The housing shortage and public lands

[Deleted member 16014]

...I'm fine with it, no yard, no maintenance, cheaper utilities... sounds like a lot more money and time for hunting.

I don't disagree by any means and probably tend more that way than the average hunttalker, but I gotta say when I went that route full on it was tough with kids. It was fine but I just didn't have the stomach to sustain it. I know not everybody has or will have kids, but having a safe place to throw the frisbee/baseball/football in or have a little kids first campout is something that's worth quite a bit; at least at certain life stages.

 

[geetar]

I think Otto is wllm's long lost redneck brother. Ontario is 100% original material.

We need more spreadsheets to prove it.

 

[Irrelevant]

You or me? I'm fine with it, no yard, no maintenance, cheaper utilities... sounds like a lot more money and time for hunting.

Me. I cannot live like a bird in a cage. In a place without silence and bird song.
To be honest, I don't think the human creature was meant to live in a city, but recognize there's too many of us to live otherwise.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Me. I cannot live like a bird in a cage. In a place without silence and bird song.
To be honest, I don't think the human creature was meant to live in a city, but recognize there's too many of use to not.

Humans have been clan/tribe animals our entire existence. The ancient new world cities, along with the old world cities of the Ganges, Tiber, Euphrates, etc all would indicate that we are in fact predisposed to live in communal groups that have amenities, etc.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Me. I cannot live like a bird in a cage. In a place without silence and bird song.
To be honest, I don't think the human creature was meant to live in a city, but recognize there's too many of use to not.

Depends on the city, I think is more my point. Most people already do. I think the forums collective outdoor experience is more the anomaly.

I don't disagree by any means and probably tend more that way than the average hunttalker, but I gotta say when I went that route full on it was tough with kids. It was fine but I just didn't have the stomach to sustain it. I know not everybody has or will have kids, but having a safe place to throw the frisbee/baseball/football in or have a little kids first campout is something that's worth quite a bit; at least at certain life stages.

I'm making a hard play for AK so take everything with a grain of salt.

 

[Irrelevant]

Humans have been clan/tribe animals our entire existence. The ancient new world cities, along with the old world cities of the Ganges, Tiber, Euphrates, etc all would indicate that we are in fact predisposed to live in communal groups that have amenities, etc.

Do you honestly not see a difference?

or

 

[LuketheDog]

Which is a product of building around cars. If you build around pedestrian traffic life is waaaay different.

A pedestrian-focused area simply pushes the traffic out farther where the happy walking people don't see if anymore, but they'd still have to sit in it when they all want to go skiing. Denver's main problem is geographic, there's simply nowhere else to put big highways to get people out of the funnel that exists on I-70.

 

[geetar]

Me. I cannot live like a bird in a cage. In a place without silence and bird song.
To be honest, I don't think the human creature was meant to live in a city, but recognize there's too many of use to not.

Do you honestly not see a difference?

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or
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There is a lot less paid advertising in the tribal photo.

 

[Otto Matic]

I worked in Pagosa Springs, CO back in 1983/84.
I was a delivery driver for a lumber company. I spent the winter delivering materials to condos, time shares, apartments and mountain retreats.
There we were, a$$ deep in snow, delivering materials to some (ahem!) "lodge" at the end of sone unimaginably impossible dirt track on the top of a "high spot" (the mountain tops are already occupied!) in the middle of nowhere.
Now they have their mountaintop "Eagle's Nest" that THEY will never be able, nor have a desire, to see in the winter.
THEY won't have to shovel snow or haul firewood for the cavernous, rock fireplace, or even clean the place. They'll pay to have all that done

But hey! They drive the economy of Archuleta county and Pagosa Springs, CO. Without them, that one family would never have been able to raise those 18 kids!
The only other income source is taking in each other's laundry and hunting season.

 

[LWC55]

Humans have been clan/tribe animals our entire existence. The ancient new world cities, along with the old world cities of the Ganges, Tiber, Euphrates, etc all would indicate that we are in fact predisposed to live in communal groups that have amenities, etc.

Just because it has been happening for thousands of years does not make it a natural thing. That is like saying zoo animals are predisposed to live in cages.

 

[TOGIE]

Humans have been clan/tribe animals our entire existence. The ancient new world cities, along with the old world cities of the Ganges, Tiber, Euphrates, etc all would indicate that we are in fact predisposed to live in communal groups that have amenities, etc.

but i mean, surely you recognize there is a difference between that and living amongst millions of other humans, in tiny apartments and condos, rubbing shoulders down the sidewalk, while the only noise one might ever hear is that of internal combustion engines, sirens, and hvac fans?

surely you concede that modern city life doesn't even remotely resemble the natural human environment of our evolution?

 

[DouglasR]

Do you honestly not see a difference?
View attachment 188171
or
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Yeah there’s definitely a tipping point

 

[Deleted member 28227]

A pedestrian-focused area simply pushes the traffic out farther where the happy walking people don't see if anymore, but they'd still have to sit in it when they all want to go skiing. Denver's main problem is geographic, there's simply nowhere else to put big highways to get people out of the funnel that exists on I-70.

How does Europe do it? Or Japan?

 

[DouglasR]

It’s like society works for man, then man works for society, man.

 

[LuketheDog]

What's more popular on HT? Bashing Denver or the 6.5 Creedmore?

You're not wrong that there is some ...err... room for improvement mainly with the homeless issue, but Denver is still a fantastic place to live.

Perhaps one man's cesspool is another paradise?

* - I worded this statement this way rather then "Denver's issues" because contrary to what some have stated up the thread, the problems Denver has are not all Denver's doing. The dude living in my alley's life didn't fall apart because our elected officials don't belong to the party you prefer. His life fell apart likely elsewhere (maybe your town), and circumstances brought him to here, and we have to deal with it. Homelessness is a societal problem, but big cities often get stuck footing the bill.

Apologies, there are a few areas within walking distance of downtown that aren't bad, I have friends who live there...but I'm happier having deer and bears snooping around my house than some meth head sleeping it off in the bushes

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Do you honestly not see a difference?
View attachment 188171
or

Population of rome was flirting with 1MM in 1AD... Alexandria was there 100 BC

London was probably around 3MM when that photo was taken...

 

[Irrelevant]

Depends on the city, I think is more my point. Most people already do. I think the forums collective outdoor experience is more the anomaly.

View attachment 188170


I'm making a hard play for AK so take everything with a grain of salt.

The oldest Homo sapien specimen is 300,000 years old. Hominids date back to 4.4 million. Peak of the Greek civilization was what, 2,500 years ago? Cities are not exactly the norm of the human experience.

Getting down to a fundamental level, is not a large part of the appeal of hunting the solitude, the quiet, the feeling connected and relaxed and free? Are those feelings not pleasurable in a way your day-to-day life is not? And why is that? What makes them enjoyable? I would argue it's because we've returned home, returned to a way of life that better suits humans. Our urban lives, while having it's advantages, is also detrimental to our existence, if only spiritually.

 

[Ben Lamb]

but i mean, surely you recognize there is a difference between that and living amongst millions of other humans, in tiny apartments and condos, rubbing shoulders down the sidewalk, while the only noise one might ever hear is that of internal combustion engines, sirens, and hvac fans?

surely you concede that modern city life doesn't even remotely resemble the natural human environment of our evolution?

So the population of the world in terms of humans is obviously far larger than it was back when Moses was herding 'em up 2x2, but Antiquity might disagree that large cities aren't in our dna.

List of largest cities throughout history - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Otto Matic]

My eldest worked a job in downtown Denver, Colorado!
Got a "dad, I've had it!" call one morning.
Stepped out the front door of a downtown office building to be greeted by a naked man wearing a backpack and peeing in the planters in front of the building. A daily occurrence when working midnights.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Leave it to @Ben Lamb (HT's #2 walking cultural repository) to link the Ganges and Euphrates to Ketchum Idaho haha.