Thanks John, but u suck now get out!

[VikingsGuy]

BLM has raised over a billion dollars thru actblue not exactly an independent non political organization. The statue crap is a real problem because it's not about statues it's about a way bigger agenda and that agenda is a problem for all americans that arent part of the 1%.

The sad part is the majority of folks being outraged about statues and monuments and street names actually think it is just about those things only. They are donating money and protesting for an agenda they have no clue about or even want probably. It's about change and not the good change that they think. Erase it all and rewrite the history of America thru the school system to fit the agenda. It's not that hard to see or understand the writing is on the wall.

I am no friend of actblue, but I believe your concern is overstated. But even if you are right, the anecdote to their narrative is to walk across the aisle and show your neighbors/fellow humans that you care about what they care about - you may disagree with the "how we get there" but that you understand why some things have to move and maybe show them a different kind of change. But rigid voices clinging to an old and only partially correct history, who fear that the "others" are going to take away your stuff/beliefs is not keeping the American spirit alive, it is just being equally manipulated by the money on the opposite side of actblue. Time for the middle 80% to start rejecting the all or nothing ground war that the extreme left and extreme right are committed to. And that means all will have to give some.

 

[Hammsolo]

I’ve wondered about that. If they dig deep enough even the best people who ever lived have something no one wants to know in their past.

Yep, but that “something” isn’t always equal. This really seems to be two discussions. 1. Monuments 2. The Past
They are linked, but not the same are they? It seems people actually May be learning more about the past than ever? I know I am.

 

[Sytes]

Learning about the past... after the fact.

If monuments do not garner interest for the past, they wouldn't be targets. Monuments to some by name or statue may be readily passed by. To each his/her own. To others, they represent a grand view of valuable history.

 

[Irrelevant]

I agree. Look within ourselves first. We do need to look openly at the past with an objective lens that honors others. It’s hard for me. I have my “heroes” from my childhood that I had to learn aren’t perfect. Michael Jordan isn’t perfect, but is a decent human. Michael Jackson and his Thriller dance that I rocked too as a wee lad with my older sisters... Definitely not statue worthy. I had to recalibrate what a hero is. I’m working on defining my line. Research comes first for me. I’m not sure where it lies, but there is one. In this case I think it’s somewhere between confederate generals and Jesus. All I know is that I’m open to learning. I could be completely wrong.

Doesn't every kid go through that when they find out there Dad is a flawed human being?

 

[geetar]

Yep, but that “something” isn’t always equal. This really seems to be two discussions. 1. Monuments 2. The Past
They are linked, but not the same are they? It seems people actually May be learning more about the past than ever? I know I am.

If it takes the destruction of reminders of the past to bring enough attention to it for people to start learning what stories are behind it it may not have been a big enough issue to mess with in the first place. I think two things are going on in our current culture. # 1 I think there is a a legitimate racial issue in this country that we in many ways could stand to change and do better in the future. I’m from the south I know what hate looks like and it’s disgusting. #2 I think many people in positions of power are using these issues as a platform for getting themselves ahead and I’m just as against that as I am the racism. In fact I just see it as two sides of the same coin. I guess the point I’m trying to make is I believe that no doubt some of the people these statues are made to be a likeness of had character flaws and we would be better off not patterning our lives after some aspects of that but I also believe that some people are using this to stir up division. I’m against the whole thing. I think we need to leave the past in the past and I think a white guy like me needs to treat Blacks, Hispanics , and any other race with respect that any human being deserves from here on out. Humanity as a whole could do better regardless of race. I guess this whole thing should be less about the past and more of a wake up call for the future.

 

[VikingsGuy]

If it takes the destruction of reminders of the past to bring enough attention to it for people to start learning what stories are behind it it may not have been a big enough issue to mess with in the first place. I think two things are going on in our current culture. # 1 I think there is a a legitimate racial issue in this country that we in many ways could stand to change and do better in the future. I’m from the south I know what hate looks like and it’s disgusting. #2 I think many people in positions of power are using these issues as a platform for getting themselves ahead and I’m just as against that as I am the racism. In fact I just see it as two sides of the same coin. I guess the point I’m trying to make is I believe that no doubt some of the people these statues are made to be a likeness of had character flaws and we would be better off not patterning our lives after some aspects of that but I also believe that some people are using this to stir up division. I’m against the whole thing. I think we need to leave the past in the past and I think a white guy like me needs to treat Blacks, Hispanics , and any other race with respect that any human being deserves from here on out. Humanity as a whole could do better regardless of race. I guess this whole thing should be less about the past and more of a wake up call for the future.

I agree with a lot of your post, but I will respectfully push back on one part. The part that says we have to leave the past in the past and now treat others with respect. When I was younger growing up in ND I agreed with this sentiment. As I have grown and learned to know and love many people different than I, I have changed my mind. I hear the "others" saying that for us to really treat them with respect, we have to understand their past and how it shapes their present. From this mutual understanding, respect and moving forward can progress. I now believe this to be true.

 

[Sawtooth]

Doesn't every kid go through that when they find out there Dad is a flawed human being?

My kids have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[VikingsGuy]

My kids have no idea what you are talking about.

In my experience, it starts at about age 13 and progressively gets worse until they are 25. Then at 30 they somehow revert and realize how wise you really were. ymmv. I still have 2 of the 3 in the dark window - apparently, I know nothing.

 

[88man]

Wow scary

 

[VikingsGuy]

Wow scary

Yup - teenagers in the house are far scarier than monument protestors!

 

[TOGIE]

In my experience, t starts at about age 13 and progressively gets worse until they are 25. Then at 30 they somehow revert and realize how wise you really were. ymmv. I still have 2 of the 3 in the dark window - apparently, I know nothing.

different for everyone, but my full realization of how right my dad was/is about so many things started around the age of 22 i'd say

my peak dad knows nothing phase lasted multiple years, probably 14-18 years old

 

[geetar]

I agree with a lot of your post, but I will respectfully push back on one part. The part that says we have to leave the past in the past and now treat others with respect. When I was younger growing up in ND I agreed with this sentiment. As I have grown and learned to know and love many people different than I, I have changed my mind. I here the "others" saying that for us to really treat them with respect, we have to understand their past and how it shapes their present. From this mutual understanding, respect and moving forward can progress. I now believe this to be true.

I can understand that. I could see how some level of understanding of the past is helpful in making the right decisions in the future. I guess what I mean is going back and trying to right the wrongs of 100 + years ago won’t necessarily make a better future but it is good to recognize and understand what was wrong in the past to keep from following the same patterns.

 

[NR_Hunter]

wwoooowww the thread title actually cracked me up.

 

[Hammsolo]

If it takes the destruction of reminders of the past to bring enough attention to it for people to start learning what stories are behind it it may not have been a big enough issue to mess with in the first place. I think two things are going on in our current culture. # 1 I think there is a a legitimate racial issue in this country that we in many ways could stand to change and do better in the future. I’m from the south I know what hate looks like and it’s disgusting. #2 I think many people in positions of power are using these issues as a platform for getting themselves ahead and I’m just as against that as I am the racism. In fact I just see it as two sides of the same coin. I guess the point I’m trying to make is I believe that no doubt some of the people these statues are made to be a likeness of had character flaws and we would be better off not patterning our lives after some aspects of that but I also believe that some people are using this to stir up division. I’m against the whole thing. I think we need to leave the past in the past and I think a white guy like me needs to treat Blacks, Hispanics , and any other race with respect that any human being deserves from here on out. Humanity as a whole could do better regardless of race. I guess this whole thing should be less about the past and more of a wake up call for the future.

As an educator, ignorance is not true bliss. We must start teaching our true history. Our history has determined our present and will help determine our future. It’s hard to walk forward while turning a blind eye. It’s frustrating right now when people want to deny history and science. I am a nationally board certified science teacher that is also a Christian. You wouldn’t believe what I hear from families. Parents pissed at me for teaching genetics and pissed at my buddy for teaching accurate depictions of our forefathers. My job is to teach the truth as we know it, not make people feel all tea, crumpets, and unicorn farts.

 

[geetar]

As an educator, ignorance is not true bliss. We must start teaching our true history. Our history has determined our present and will help determine our future. It’s hard to walk forward while turning a blind eye. It’s frustrating right now when people want to deny history and science. I am a nationally board certified science teacher that is also a Christian. You wouldn’t believe what I hear from families. Parents pissed at me for teaching genetics and pissed at my buddy for teaching accurate depictions of our forefathers. My job is to teach the truth as we know it, not make people feel all tea, crumpets, and unicorn farts.

I think I may have been misunderstood or maybe I worded myself wrong. What I mean is not that we shouldn’t teach accurate history or that we shouldn’t understand the past. I just have a hard time with the pulling down of statues and historical monuments in an effort to heal wounds from the past. There are a lot of people in our US History who I don’t look up to or agree with. Take for instance I’m from NC. I cannot agree with or respect in any way Andrew Jackson driving out the Cherokee Indians from my state on the “ Trail of Tears “. However if I saw a statue of him I wouldn’t tear it down because his actions angered me. I would rather just recognize him as a flawed human being who’s actions I disagreed with and move one. On the education part I couldn’t agree more. I also am a Christian who believes that science and religion are not enemies. I can’t imagine how frustrating that must be to try to educate kids only to have parents stand in the way. Thanks for teaching kids and making a difference.

 

[Sawtooth]

In my experience, t starts at about age 13 and progressively gets worse until they are 25. Then at 30 they somehow revert and realize how wise you really were. ymmv. I still have 2 of the 3 in the dark window - apparently, I know nothing.

Total sarcasm on my first post. My kids are 24 and 21. I about fell off my chair the other day when my son (24) said Thanks Dad for teaching me the importance of having a good work ethic. Apparently, others at his work are still learning those tough lessons.

 

[MTGomer]

Circular lib cannibalism.
chapter: I’ve lost count

Wokeness: the limit does not exist.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

As an educator, ignorance is not true bliss. We must start teaching our true history. Our history has determined our present and will help determine our future. It’s hard to walk forward while turning a blind eye. It’s frustrating right now when people want to deny history and science. I am a nationally board certified science teacher that is also a Christian. You wouldn’t believe what I hear from families. Parents pissed at me for teaching genetics and pissed at my buddy for teaching accurate depictions of our forefathers. My job is to teach the truth as we know it, not make people feel all tea, crumpets, and unicorn farts.

I thank you for teaching the truth as we all know it. It's not an easy job and your probably underpaid. I could be wrong but I feel like you are a minority in the teaching world. My step father and sister are both teachers and this is not what they witness on a daily basis in their high schools. University is another can of worms. My wife is in her mid 30s and has been back in school she received her masters and is now working towards her PhD. I sit in and listen to some of her online classes and its atrocious what the professors are spewing. Like I said were mid 30s were not wet behind the ears I have been in the work force for almost 20 years and I've lived a little bit all over the country. What their spewing is not truth...its opinions and your made to feel like an absolute horrible person if you question it. Trust me I know cause my wife challenges them all the time and she is very disliked by classmates and professors alike.

 

[tarheel]

It's just a shame. Everyone just rolls over for the sake of PCness.

We've been doing it since the 60's and now another icon will be besmirched and relegated to the memories of the oldtimers.

 

[VikingsGuy]

You wouldn’t believe what I hear from families. Parents pissed at me for teaching genetics and pissed at my buddy for teaching accurate depictions of our forefathers. My job is to teach the truth as we know it, not make people feel all tea, crumpets, and unicorn farts.

Yup snowflakes on both sides - I especially love when snowflakes call others snowflakes.