Thanks John, but u suck now get out!

[Deleted member 28227]

No. Considering Pulling down and renaming your monuments is rolling over for the mob and erasing your history for the mob.

Bro the title of the article is a metaphor.

They are not remove a statue, they are pulling idea of Muir as the apotheosis of conservation by publicly acknowledging his bias, and The Sierra Club's other notorious members.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

View attachment 147742

Bro the title of the article is a metaphor.

They are not remove a statue, they are pulling idea of Muir as the apotheosis of conservation by publicly acknowledging his bias, and The Sierra Club's other notorious members.

"the Sierra Club announced on Wednesday that it will consider renaming or pulling down monuments dedicated to its founder, the iconic conservationist John Muir".

??

 

[Dougfirtree]

Haven't you ever been in an argument with someone and even when things had settled down, you felt like you wanted some recognition that your point of view was valid? Some validation that the problem, as you saw it, was real (even partially)? That feeling is very relavent here. White America is so eager to move beyond the horrors and injustices of our past, but many people not only want to point out that the problem isn't gone yet, but to hear some recognition of the validity of their view of the past too. That's all that's happening here. Good on the Sierra Club for recognizing, but not hitting the self-destruct button.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

What's the "Muir Woods National Monument" gonna be called now?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Can you imagine how many name changes, monuments torn down, etc if women were not as civilized over the terrible women's suffrage era?

Yeah... that happened

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

 

[westbranch]

"the Sierra Club announced on Wednesday that it will consider renaming or pulling down monuments dedicated to its founder, the iconic conservationist John Muir".

??

Here ya go: https://www.sierraclub.org/michael-brune/2020/07/john-muir-early-history-sierra-club

 

[Sytes]

Yeah... that happened

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Huh?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

"the Sierra Club announced on Wednesday that it will consider renaming or pulling down monuments dedicated to its founder, the iconic conservationist John Muir".

??

Fair, that line is in the yahoo news article. They link to the SC statement in which "pulling down" is a metaphor, so we can direct the facepalm at yahoo and I will be glad to cook and eat that crow if Brune made a verbal comment.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Huh?

View attachment 147743

apologies somehow it didn't copy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/07/21/margaret-sanger-planned-parenthood-eugenics/

 

[VikingsGuy]

I too have concerns about judging historical figures by present standards, but I just don't accept that statues are our history. They are hunks of stone and metal that 98% of Americans walk past without even considering. Keep 'em all up, tear'em all down (lawfully) I couldn't care less. But in either case, we have to at least be honest that many great men that built our nation, built our system, did so while harboring a strong sense that the system was being built for them - white land-owning men. This undoubtedly shaped our nation and its systems and it is fair to wonder if we can adapt some of these systems in 2020 to make them more just for all.

 

[bts09]

What's the "Muir Woods National Monument" gonna be called now?

The "We're All Flawed Humans and John Muir Was No Different Woods National Monument" of course.

 

[VikingsGuy]

The "We're All Flawed Humans and John Muir Was No Different Woods National Monument" of course.

I addition to getting rid of useless statues, I am also fine with dropping the naming of things after people. This is just not on this nation's top 50 problems list in my opinion.

 

[westbranch]

Maybe the guys that will forget about history from a few 100 yrs ago without the statues put up 50 yrs should read a few more books. Halfway kidding

 

[noharleyyet]

The "We're All Flawed Humans and John Muir Was No Different Woods National Monument" "It's not About Stone and Bronze, Pay Me Nat'l Monument" of course.

maybe...

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

I addition to getting rid of useless statues, I am also fine with dropping the naming of things after people. This is just not on this nation's top 50 problems list in my opinion.

For real. I just don't care. We have so many other, bigger, problems right now.

 

[beginnerhunter]

call me ignorant

but i have this feeling in my gut that even the anti slavery folks of yesteryear (the 1800s) would be considered pretty racist by today's standards.

hard to find a human from that time period that had it all figured out; or right now for that matter!

Even if you believe in objective truth and morality, as I do, you have to admit humanity's conception of morality is pretty subjective and always changing. So pretty good chance hunters will be vilified by future generations.

The good news is that, if you are a religious believer, it doesn't matter much what people say about you after you die. You await real final judgement or whatever afterlife there is and hope your loved ones find their way.

And if you are a materialist, then it REALLY doesn't matter what happens after you die. Sure, you may care about what legacy you leave behind as a way of living on, but eventually that too will be annihilated along with all life and memory of everything that ever was.

Joh Muir is dead, he'll still be dead whether we honor him or piss on his grave. All men are like grass, and all their glory like the flowers of the field. The grass withers, and the flowers fade...

 

[SAJ-99]

I think Sierra Club is doing the right thing. I agree that a lot of the focus on the past is a little silly. However, and unfortunately, the problems still exist today. Women and minorities get paid less for the same job, unequal application of the law, biases in hiring, etc. Fix the core problem and people won't care about the statues.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

BLM has raised over a billion dollars thru actblue not exactly an independent non political organization. The statue crap is a real problem because it's not about statues it's about a way bigger agenda and that agenda is a problem for all americans that arent part of the 1%.

The sad part is the majority of folks being outraged about statues and monuments and street names actually think it is just about those things only. They are donating money and protesting for an agenda they have no clue about or even want probably. It's about change and not the good change that they think. Erase it all and rewrite the history of America thru the school system to fit the agenda. It's not that hard to see or understand the writing is on the wall.

 

[SAJ-99]

BLM has raised over a billion dollars thru actblue not exactly an independent non political organization. The statue crap is a real problem because it's not about statues it's about a way bigger agenda and that agenda is a problem for all americans that arent part of the 1%.

The sad part is the majority of folks being outraged about statues and monuments and street names actually think it is just about those things only. They are donating money and protesting for an agenda they have no clue about or even want probably. It's about change and not the good change that they think. Erase it all and rewrite the history of America thru the school system to fit the agenda. It's not that hard to see or understand the writing is on the wall.

It seems about fairness to me. Change happens regardless. The History of America we learned was highly skewed. We named a holiday after Columbus. The guy's primary motive was to find a shorter route to India. When that failed, he had to change his business plan to gathering gold and such for his investors. When he couldn't find any of that, he loaded up natives to ship to Europe as slaves. He and those after him wiped out entire civilizations, but history is written by the victors and they polished that turd to a shiny gloss. Let's tell kids what really happened and let them decide what the future should look like.

 

[Hammsolo]

Yeah, everyone sins even the best of us. That doesn't negate the great things they achieve. Everyone pushing to for change needs to look within themselves at the changes they can make first.

At this point I'm waiting for the Lincoln and MLK backlash.

I agree. Look within ourselves first. We do need to look openly at the past with an objective lens that honors others. It’s hard for me. I have my “heroes” from my childhood that I had to learn aren’t perfect. Michael Jordan isn’t perfect, but is a decent human. Michael Jackson and his Thriller dance that I rocked too as a wee lad with my older sisters... Definitely not statue worthy. I had to recalibrate what a hero is. I’m working on defining my line. Research comes first for me. I’m not sure where it lies, but there is one. In this case I think it’s somewhere between confederate generals and Jesus. All I know is that I’m open to learning. I could be completely wrong.