Teddy Coming Down

[Woodrow F Call]

I read the news stories about this. The composition showing a white man above a black man and a Native American has had some debate for awhile.

Theodore Roosevelt IV, told the New York Times: "The composition of the equestrian statue does not reflect Theodore Roosevelt's legacy. It is time to move the statue and move forward."

The museum still has halls named for him and still plans to celebrate his contributions to conservation.

 

[SAJ-99]

Many of these statues are works of art. No one is bowing down and worshiping them. Often, a passerby couldn’t even tell you who it is. I want the statues left up in America just like I want the giant Buddha’s to be left alone instead of destroyed by the Taliban. It’s history and art. I’m not a Buddhist, but can certainly appreciate another culture and great art.

Agree, it is art, but it is also a symbol. Do we need to play “Is it racist?” with this picture? I see their point. It isn’t about TR being on the horse. It could have been any famous white dude. There is still a whole section in the museum dedicated to TR’s amazing conservation efforts.

 

[Sytes]

I read the news stories about this. The composition showing a white man above a black man and a Native American has had some debate for awhile.



The museum still has halls named for him and still plans to celebrate his contributions to conservation.

And here's the real background for the intent from the sculptor himself, John Russell Pope.

“In the center of the terrace…will arise a polished granite pedestal bearing an equestrian statue of Roosevelt with two accompanying figures on foot, one representing the American Indian and the other the primitive African. This heroic group…will symbolize the fearless leadership, the explorer, benefactor and educator….”—From a description of the architect’s design approved by the Memorial Commission, 1928

U.S. President, N.Y. Governor, always daring greatly!

Greatest quotes of all time... Of course, in my humblest opinion.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt

 

[BigHornRam]

You fellas just haven't had the situation properly 'splained to you yet. It's coming.....

When the Karl Marx statues start popping up like mushrooms, it will all start to come into focus.

 

[diamond hitch]

I kind of thought our christian background was stemmed in forgiveness. The option of only honoring the perfect people certainly limits the options. Thank the lord I don't live in a town.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I think the conversation about what symbols we want to have in our public spaces is valid, I also agree with the idea that figures are complicated/mean different things to different people and that we can't just sweep our history under the rug.

I believe all of the Nazi statues and markers have been destroyed? Rightly so... probably not a fair comparison in this discussion with TR.

Tallinn has a statue graveyard for communist markers. Communism in Europe is complicated. Perhaps this statue doesn't belong in this public setting, but belongs somewhere that is designed for a more nuanced conversation about American history.

 

[glass eye]

Before this post I knew nothing about this statue, but I have a feeling it isn't so much the figure of Roosevelt. It's the statues he's flanked by that chaps peoples hide.

I saw a video of a reporter asking why they objected to the statue (not this one) and he said " Honestly, I don't know who he was " They are pulling down any and all statues.

 

[LWC55]

I think the conversation about what symbols we want to have in our public spaces is valid, I also agree with the idea that figures are complicated/mean different things to different people and that we can't just sweep our history under the rug.

I believe all of the Nazi statues and markers have been destroyed? Rightly so... probably not a fair comparison in this discussion with TR.

Tallinn has a statue graveyard for communist markers. Communism in Europe is complicated. Perhaps this statue doesn't belong in this public setting, but belongs somewhere that is designed for a more nuanced conversation about American history.

View attachment 144460

All men and women are complicated and flawed. Just as all of the founders of this great nation. Should we blast Mt. Rushmore because of those flaws? Should we rename Washington DC and Washington State? What will be enough?

 

[BigHornRam]

Custer was a piece of work by all accounts. We need to rename the Custer National Forest. Imagine a whole new crop of newbies asking how the deer hunting is on the Greta Thunberg National Forest?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

All men and women are complicated and flawed. Just as all of the founders of this great nation. Should we blast Mt. Rushmore because of those flaws? Should we rename Washington DC and Washington State? What will be enough?

Kinda hyperbolic whataboutism... I put "this" in bold in the hope to keep responses on track.

That statue is problematic, Teddy does have a great legacy for conservation. I probably quote him more than most of the forum. If I'm having a conversation with someone about the importance of conservation and hunting, I'd prefer to be able to bring up Teddy and no have this statue be the imagery that comes to that persons mind.

 

[Bigjay73]

Are we going to discuss the numerous Army bases named after confederate generals? Guess those are going to change as well. I don't mind a lot of this change, just want to turn off the news until the dust settles, all of this has my head spinning

 

[onpoint]

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt

While so many of those posting on this thread are pissing and moaning about the loss of mostly worthless - and arguably damaging - symbolism. Some of us are actually "in the arena". Striving valiantly and attempting - in the face of withering and remarkably stupid opposition from our "fellow" public land outdoorsmen/women - to advance, protect, and solidify the issues under attack by the very same folks that most of the politicians that many these posters support.
So go ahead and whine like snowflakes about shit that largely has nothing to do with public lands, hunting and fishing, or most of the conservation ideas TR advanced and championed.
Sit back and reap the rewards of the work of others - working like hell to take care of "our" (what a joke) issues. I, for one, just got letters published to the Montana Standard and the Bozeman Daily Chronicle's editorial sections regarding MFWP's poor handling of the Madison River Recreation Plan - or lack thereof. Took thought, ambition, and dedication. All gladly undertaken out of concern for "our" issues.
What have you done about Public Land issues lately? Most of the posters on this thread have their head buried so far up their asses that all they can see is their brainstem - where the basest of human function - not thought - resides. I'd love to hear what TR would say, if he could, about the state of the public land sportsman/woman today. You valiant defenders of his statue just maybe wouldn't be so enamored with him after he got done. What a bunch of misled, jump on the bandwagon, crybaby bullshit. Maybe now I'll get banned for good.........................................................................

 

[Deleted member 28227]

While so many of those posting on this thread are pissing and moaning about the loss of mostly worthless - and arguably damaging symbolism - some of us are actually "in the arena". Striving valiantly and attempting - in the face of withering and remarkably stupid opposition from our "fellow" public land outdoorsmen/women - to advance, protect, and solidify the issues those issues under attack by the very same folks that most of the politicians that many these posters support.
So go ahead and whine like snowflakes about shit that largely has nothing to do with public lands, hunting and fishing, or most of the conservation ideas TR advanced and championed.
Sit back and reap the rewards of the work of others - working like hell to take care of "our" (what a joke) issues. I, for one, just got letters published to the Montana Standard and the Bozeman Daily Chronicle's editorial sections regarding MFWP's poor handling of the Madison River Recreation Plan - or lack thereof. Took thought, ambition, and dedication. All galdly undertaken out of concern for "our" issues.
What have you done about Public Land issues lately? Most of the posters on this thread have their head buried so far up their asses that all they can see is their brainstem - where the basest of human function - not thought - resides. I'd love to hear what TR would say, if he could, about the state of the public land sportsman/woman today. You valiant defenders of his statue just maybe wouldn't be so enamored with him after he got done. What a bunch of misled, jump on the bandwagon crybaby bullshit. Maybe now I'll get banned for good.........................................................................

 

[BuzzH]

While I can appreciate the art involved in statue's the whole idea of statues, in particular those "honoring" a person are about as ridiculous as it gets.

There isn't a single person that learns jack chit about history from looking at a statue. You learn history, by studying history, by understanding history. A statue doesn't tell the story or explain history one bit.

IMO, mount Rushmore is an eyesore, I'd rather it was in its natural state, the wildlife probably would as well. Never have seen it in person, probably never will, and don't care if I don't.

Monuments are a bit different, IMO, because they usually have some interpretive stuff to accompany them...a story to tell, you know actually history rather than glorifying a person. If I were to never see another statue of a person again, I wouldn't be out anything.

 

[Sytes]

You fellas just haven't had the situation properly 'splained to you yet. It's coming.....

Winner!

 

[geetar]

Custer was a piece of work by all accounts. We need to rename the Custer National Forest. Imagine a whole new crop of newbies asking how the deer hunting is on the Greta Thunberg National Forest?

@BigHornRam You always bring an interesting and comical viewpoint to these discussions and I for one enjoy it.

 

[Europe]

As long as the Springfield 30-06 and Winchester 405 that he used in Africa remain in the Smithsonian I am going to reserve the small amount of energy I have left to protest "aging"

However on a serious note, when they ask me if I think the Auschwitz camp in Poland should be torn down, I always say No. And as mentioned before I have some direct linage to those who were there. But I dont know one person today who worked there, but of course there are others who are direct descendants of some of the men who did work at that camp. I would have no problem breaking bread with them. That was yesterday and this is today. They have no control over who their ancestors were, nor do I. "WE" can control who we are today, but can not change what others did 100, 200, 300 years ago, whether we were related to them or not.

History is just that, History. What can you do today that is constructive to/for yourself, your family, society. Taking down that statue will not help your family eat better, or help your neighbor's children get a better education, or your friends parents have better health care.

Taking down that statue will not improve something that most family's need today. ( Health care, Employment, Education ) or provide you with

MORE TIME to hunt and fish. you fellows who are posting on this thread do realize that fishing season is open, dove season is open, turkey season is open, bear season is open in Alaska and Idaho ( maybe other states as well ), hogs are plentiful in Texas

However as stated many times my opinion and a nickel will buy you absolutely nothing. I could probably change that to a quarter and still be correct

SFC B--With any luck I will be there soon.
Noharleyyet. Thank you
Music tape contributors -Thank you!
Hunting Wife. Sea Breeze --aaaagggghhhh (-;

 

[LWC55]

Kinda hyperbolic whataboutism... I put "this" in bold in the hope to keep responses on track.

That statue is problematic, Teddy does have a great legacy for conservation. I probably quote him more than most of the forum. If I'm having a conversation with someone about the importance of conservation and hunting, I'd prefer to be able to bring up Teddy and no have this statue be the imagery that comes to that persons mind.

It is a real discussion in the mainstream media. TR had his flaws and so may the statue. But that isn't was this whole cancel culture is about.

CNN Leftist Angela Rye: Tear Down Washington, Jefferson Memorials

 

[Northwoods Labs]

Removing statues is just an absolute pathetic, instant gratification, do nothing response. Neither side wants to come together and solves problems. Conservatives, liberals, just want to pander to their bases. This is just getting so old

 

[3855WIN]

While so many of those posting on this thread are pissing and moaning about the loss of mostly worthless - and arguably damaging symbolism - some of us are actually "in the arena". Striving valiantly and attempting - in the face of withering and remarkably stupid opposition from our "fellow" public land outdoorsmen/women - to advance, protect, and solidify the issues under attack by the very same folks that most of the politicians that many these posters support.
So go ahead and whine like snowflakes about shit that largely has nothing to do with public lands, hunting and fishing, or most of the conservation ideas TR advanced and championed.
Sit back and reap the rewards of the work of others - working like hell to take care of "our" (what a joke) issues. I, for one, just got letters published to the Montana Standard and the Bozeman Daily Chronicle's editorial sections regarding MFWP's poor handling of the Madison River Recreation Plan - or lack thereof. Took thought, ambition, and dedication. All gladly undertaken out of concern for "our" issues.
What have you done about Public Land issues lately? Most of the posters on this thread have their head buried so far up their asses that all they can see is their brainstem - where the basest of human function - not thought - resides. I'd love to hear what TR would say, if he could, about the state of the public land sportsman/woman today. You valiant defenders of his statue just maybe wouldn't be so enamored with him after he got done. What a bunch of misled, jump on the bandwagon crybaby bullshit. Maybe now I'll get banned for good.........................................................................

Of what you wrote to the paper is anything like what you just posted, you won’t sway many people to your side.