Starting to Apply Out of State - Help?

[boof]

Next season I am going to start buying preference points for other states. I have been told by a number of people that you won't regret buying points early. This is a pretty broad question, but what do you recommend for a beginner? What are some points I should be collecting right now (that I can afford on a college budget)?

Here is what I was thinking for next year's points: Wyoming deer ($40), Colorado deer ($25), Wyoming elk ($50), Colorado elk ($25), Wyoming antelope ($30)

Thanks for any info!

 

[2rocky]

Remember in CO you will have to front the whole Tag fee. Then in the spring you will get a check back minus the processing.

UT LE units take an obscene amount of points to guarantee a tag, but low point holders get drawn every year. This is my Long shot application every year. You front the license fee, and an app fee and your CC gets charged if drawn. Might as well apply for a hunt, as long as you have the finances to do the hunt. I never PLAN to draw my UT tags but I'll deal with it if I do.

There are 11 Western States in the lower 48. 9 of them have preference point systems. I ended up making a spreadsheet by state and species with short, Med, and LONG range designations. You build points in the Long category, and plan to hunt the Short range every year or two, and the Medium range goals are every 5 years or so.

 

[boof]

For Colorado, is there the option of ONLY buying the preference point?

 

[Oak]

The Colorado point fee will likely go up to $40 next year.

I don't think the WY deer points are worth it unless you plan to go soon. The best deer hunting now is in regional tags that can be drawn with 1 point (I believe). There is also the chance the herds could recover a bit by the time you're ready to hunt, so I suppose you could gamble on the points.

If you can swing the cost of the hunting license, I'd consider adding AZ deer and elk (and sheep if you ever think you'll want to hunt them).

 

[Oak]

You have to front the whole tag cost in CO, and then get a refund minus the point fee.

 

[Steelhead]

I may get lynched but OR isn't the worst state in the world to build points (that would be WA). If you've got $200 you can get points in 5 categories each year...

 

[boof]

You have to front the whole tag cost in CO, and then get a refund minus the point fee.

Okay, I'm going to ask questions until I get this right. So hypothetically you would pay $351 for the deer application AND $25 for the preference point. You are then refunded the $351 in the spring? Or is it that you pay $351 and then get refunded $326 in the spring?

Sorry for all the questions.

 

[boof]

The Colorado point fee will likely go up to $40 next year.

I don't think the WY deer points are worth it unless you plan to go soon. The best deer hunting now is in regional tags that can be drawn with 1 point (I believe). There is also the chance the herds could recover a bit by the time you're ready to hunt, so I suppose you could gamble on the points.

If you can swing the cost of the hunting license, I'd consider adding AZ deer and elk (and sheep if you ever think you'll want to hunt them).

For Wyoming I was thinking of going for a homerun tag, one that requires six or seven points to get (unit 87 or 89). I figured if I want to do that hunt ever, I better start buying points now.

 

[MTpubliclander]

I may get lynched but OR isn't the worst state in the world to build points (that would be WA). If you've got $200 you can get points in 5 categories each year...

My Grandpa has max points in WA for elk moose and sheep and he has yet to draw while most people are drawing with half the points.

 

[A-con]

Buy points early and often. Buy points everywhere you can afford, for every species you think you may ever want to hunt.
I absolutely guarantee you ten or fifteen years from now, when you are drawing tags that are selling at auction for tens of thousands of dollars, you will laugh about the cost and time involved.
Keep at it, don't skip a year and be patient.

 

[A-con]

Some things you want to be aware of;

Point creep:
For most of the better units in each state, there are lots of people with lots of points applying for very few tags. Each year 10 of them draw the tag and 3,000 don’t, so next year they have another point when they apply for the same unit. Because of this, each year the number of “points” it takes to draw a unit often goes up almost another point. A unit that takes 10 points right now may take 17 points in ten years. It ugly, don’t get discouraged.

Driving distance;
I drive to my hunts, and an area that I can drive to in 12 hours is a lot more desirable then one that takes two days to get to. It may seem like a minor point, but with $4 gas and only 8 or 9 days off work, Colorado would cost me over $400 in gas for at best a 4 ½ day hunt, compared to Arizona or Utah at less than $200 gas for a 7-8 day hunt.

Trophy units;
If you really want to hunt 400”+ bulls and 200”+ mule deer, you might only draw 1 or 2 tags for each in your lifetime. Lower your expectations to 370” bulls and 185” bucks and you can probably draw tags for each every 10-12 years. If you can find you way to hunting nirvana with 340” bulls and 170” mule deer, you can hunt one or the other almost every year. It’s all a mater of perspective.

 

[muledeerjunkie]

This is a pretty broad question, but what do you recommend for a beginner?

In my opinion, there are a lot of variables which affect an answer to you question. It's somewhat dependent on how old you are and your weapon of choice! If you are in your twenties and are interested in archery, rifle and muzzleloader, then buy all the points you can afford...in several years from now you won't have enough vacation to do all the hunts you originally set out to do!

If you're in your fourties (or older) and are only interested in rifle hunting, then you might want to consider a different plan... Look at hunting in states where licenses are over the counter or can be purchased without points (IE. Colorado, Montana, Alaska, etc). Archery and muzzleloader seasons usually (not always) can be drawn with a shorter wait time than a rifle tag. You need to think about what your physical health/condition might be in 10-15 years from now (if you're going to build points) because that's what it might take to draw a quality tag in some states. As much as I hate to say it, perhaps a land owner tag might be a better option as you get older.

PS - If you have kids, then have them apply for youth hunts in other states as now is the time to do it. Also build points for them ASAP; in most states the preference points are discounted or free (although you may need front all tag costs, then get the full amount returned to you a few months later).

 

[boof]

In my opinion, there are a lot of variables which affect an answer to you question. It's somewhat dependent on how old you are and your weapon of choice! If you are in your twenties and are interested in archery, rifle and muzzleloader, then buy all the points you can afford...in several years from now you won't have enough vacation to do all the hunts you originally set out to do!

If you're in your fourties (or older) and are only interested in rifle hunting, then you might want to consider a different plan... Look at hunting in states where licenses are over the counter or can be purchased without points (IE. Colorado, Montana, Alaska, etc). Archery and muzzleloader seasons usually (not always) can be drawn with a shorter wait time than a rifle tag. You need to think about what your physical health/condition might be in 10-15 years from now (if you're going to build points) because that's what it might take to draw a quality tag in some states. As much as I hate to say it, perhaps a land owner tag might be a better option as you get older.

PS - If you have kids, then have them apply for youth hunts in other states as now is the time to do it. Also build points for them ASAP; in most states the preference points are discounted or free (although you may need front all tag costs, then get the full amount returned to you a few months later).

I'm 21 right now. Trying to jump on the preference point train before it's too late. Muzzleloader and rifle are the hunts I am most interested in. Archery is favorite, but I would have a hard time justifying years of PPs and the long drive to try to make it happen with my bow. No doubt I will be doing some western archery hunts, but more likely on tags that are OTC.

 

[boof]

Some things you want to be aware of;

Point creep:
For most of the better units in each state, there are lots of people with lots of points applying for very few tags. Each year 10 of them draw the tag and 3,000 don’t, so next year they have another point when they apply for the same unit. Because of this, each year the number of “points” it takes to draw a unit often goes up almost another point. A unit that takes 10 points right now may take 17 points in ten years. It ugly, don’t get discouraged.

Driving distance;
I drive to my hunts, and an area that I can drive to in 12 hours is a lot more desirable then one that takes two days to get to. It may seem like a minor point, but with $4 gas and only 8 or 9 days off work, Colorado would cost me over $400 in gas for at best a 4 ½ day hunt, compared to Arizona or Utah at less than $200 gas for a 7-8 day hunt.

Trophy units;
If you really want to hunt 400”+ bulls and 200”+ mule deer, you might only draw 1 or 2 tags for each in your lifetime. Lower your expectations to 370” bulls and 185” bucks and you can probably draw tags for each every 10-12 years. If you can find you way to hunting nirvana with 340” bulls and 170” mule deer, you can hunt one or the other almost every year. It’s all a mater of perspective.

I'm actually okay with collecting PPs, even if it means I can't draw a tag until 2025. South Dakota is very liberal with their tags so I can usually have three buck tags a year that keeps me content.

Point creep is a scary thought. I see it all the time with South Dakota tags. Many people are rolling over into 15+ years of points for SD elk tags, truly making it a once and a lifetime tag.

 

[JohnCushman]

In Colorado you can hunt every year for elk and antelope with OTC archery tags while still collecting preference points

 

[Flatrock]

For Wyoming I was thinking of going for a homerun tag, one that requires six or seven points to get (unit 87 or 89). I figured if I want to do that hunt ever, I better start buying points now.

For a guy just starting out, I don't even know how long it would take to draw those tags with point creep. 89 maybe 8-10 years. 90 though was only a 23% draw this year on the regular tag with max points which means that will probably be a 15 year draw for a guy just starting out.

I think the sweet spot is in the 3-5 point units in most states.

 

[Flatrock]

Whoops I see you said unit 87, not 89. That has almost identical odds to 90. I bet down the road a guy will need 15 points in the max point category to draw 87 and 90. Meanwhile like Oak said, you could go to 1 point general units and be in units where some giants are shot every year.

 

[1_pointer]

The ones you listed are good, easy ones to start building points in. I'd also start building points in UT. It's really not all that bad on the out lay of cash. Nevada and AZ are similar, but IIRC cost a bit more. All three require you to buy a hunting license.

 

[bigeasygator]

I have the luxury of not being married, no kids, and a decent income so I buy points in as many states as I can. My recommendation is that you really put together a strategy on what species you want to hunt and goals for an animal you want to harvest. Then, do your research to see what kind of units will allow you to meet your goals, as well as how the draw works and what fees you'll have to front. I'm fairly certain Wyoming and definitely Colorado require you to pay the entire tag cost up front (Wyoming does have a preference point only period from July-September). For Colorado, you pay the tag cost and are refunded all but a refundable portion and the preference point fee.

As I mentioned, learn how the draw works for each state. In Wyoming, the licenses are first split via a resident/non-resident allocation (20% for deer and 15% for elk). Wyoming also has a special license and a regular license, so the non-resident pool of licenses is split between those (40% to the special pool, and 60% to the regular pool). Then a certain amount of the licenses will go to people with the most points in the special pool and the regular pool (75%), and the rest go into a random draw (25%). I may have the exact details a little wrong, but at the end of the day there are certain units in certain states that you have zero chance of drawing without the most points. In Arizona, the licenses are allocated first by bonus point -- typically the non-resident quota is met at this point and no tags are available in any random pool for the most in demand tags. Each state is different and it's important to understand the nuances.

I'd also look at Arizona and Utah for building points. You may not draw tags for many, many years but those are some of the best trophy states, particularly for deer and elk. My strategy is to draw a tag an elk tag every year in New Mexico, a deer tag every three years or so in Wyoming, a deer tag every 5 years in Colorado, and hold out for 10 or more years in Arizona and Utah, for both deer and elk. If I pull any other tags in the mean time, great! That's a general kind of strategy, and I'm building points for other species too so that will also augment my options. My limited experience also says that there are GREAT hunts that can be done more or less every year throughout the West, so a pile of points isn't necessary to hunt some great country and great animals!

 

[A-con]

So lets talk states.
Opinions may very.

Arizona, my favorite state to build points in.
World class elk, deer, antelope and sheep.
While it may take a long time to draw the tag of your dreams, keep in mind that the less popular units and seasons in Arizona are often better hunting then the best tags in other states.
You buy a license up front, $150 or so. This weeds out a lot of applicants.
It will take you 5-8 years to draw a very good elk tag, 15+ years to draw a really great one.
The very best mule deer tags, in the rut will probably never happen in your lifetime, but good tags pre-rut can be drawn in 5-7 years. You can use your deer points on Coues deer and draw twice that often. Sheep are an option.


Utah, another state that makes you buy a license.
Like Arizona, world class elk and deer, with opportunities for moose, sheep and goat. Top end elk tags can take decades, but very good tags can be drawn in 8-10 years. Deer and moose are all over the place in regards to quality and how hard to draw, but since you are buying the license anyway, you might as well buy the points. Sheep and Antelope are an option.


Wyoming
Deer, elk and antelope points are a no brainer, buy them. One thing about Wyoming is lots of good hunting in units and areas that only take 1-3 points to draw. If you want to hold out for the best units it may take a decade or more. Moose, sheep and Mt goat are also options

Colorado;
In my humble opinion, Colorado elk points are over rated. Twenty+ years to draw the best units, and with point creep you may never get there. If and when you finally draw the tag, I don’t think the trophy quality is any better than a 10 year tag in Utah or Arizona. On the other hand, there is LOTS of opportunity, lots of “Over the counter” tags with good elk hunting. Mule deer is definitely worth it, great mule deer hunting, this state probably produces more B&C bucks than all other states combined. 2-5 years for a decent tag, 15+ for a great tag. Moose, sheep and Mt goat are also options

If you are serious about building points and drawing great tags in the future, you need an education.
For $200 a year, you can join “Huntin-Fool”. The cost just went up from $100, but the service is something of a “Non resident western hunter university”, and $200 is the tuition. I would suggest you just build points for a few years, then join “Huntin-Fool” when you are ready to start using those points and draw tags.