Shoulder Seasons on Public Land

[shoots-straight]

I have so far. My attitude is that if I can’t get it done from Sept 1-Dec.1 the elk deserve a pass until next year.

I killed a cow in a damage season a few years back. I think it was around the 1st of the year. The idea was to get the Elk off a Ranchers lands that were getting hit hard by a herd of Elk that's mostly not hunted and harbors a large group of Elk. I don't have a problem with those surgical seasons.

 

[Nameless Range]

But hunters can make a conscious choice not to hunt during a shoulder season. I wonder how many that voice opposition actually make that choice.

I have never hunted the shoulder seasons, though I have hunted game damage hunts, and see a distinct difference between the two. One is a wholesale reduction of elk numbers across an entire HD, the other is an acute attempt at resolving an acute problem. I support the latter, and hope such a model, and maybe even a more aggressive one, is part of a successful way to move forward that acknowledges the financial suffering elk can cause a landowner, that doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater in the way shoulder seasons do.


Whether some hunters partake, I can kind of charitably look at it like speed limits. I think speed limits should be slower, but you will catch me driving 80 every now and then. The same for hunters could be true. All else being equal, a hunter who when thinking soberly about shoulder seasons in July would oppose them, may, in the frustration of an unsuccessful season and desperation that elk brings out in hunters, drive toward White Sulphur Springs with a loaded gun the week of Christmas.

Not apologizing for anyone. Folks should not participate. But I believe when framed correctly, most Montanans oppose Shoulder Seasons. Questions that can help frame things:

-Is it reasonable to hunt elk 6 months out of the year?
-Are there so many elk out there that you find elk hunting easy?
-When you go hunting every November do you tell yourself, "Man, there are just 60,000 too many elk in Montana."
-What do you think is going on when some landowners bellyache about elk out of one side of their mouth and then name the price for someone to come on their land and shoot them out of the other?
-Has public land hunting gotten better or worse for you over the last decade since shoulder seasons were implemented?

 

[Gerald Martin]

I killed a cow in a damage season a few years back. I think it was around the 1st of the year. The idea was to get the Elk off a Ranchers lands that were getting hit hard by a herd of Elk that's mostly not hunted and harbors a large group of Elk. I don't have a problem with those surgical seasons.

I was overlooking the damage hunts when I responded. I agree with you about targeted hunts to alleviate specific problems with elk. I don’t have a problem with those as the goal is to haze elk off areas. The few that die don’t have a large affect on overall numbers in other parts of the unit.

On the other hand, I am sick of hearing conversations from hunters that focus on the theme of “getting one of those easy late season cows” so they don’t have to work so hard during general season.

Or my neighbor who was so proud of the 270” 6x6 that he was able to shoot after Christmas in unit 417. FWP called all the permit holders that still had tags and gave permission to shoot either sex elk.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Until there is a top down recognition that shoulder seasons, damage hunts, etc don't address the real issues relative to elk distribution, then it's just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

In case we haven't said that enough on this subject.

The EMP rewrite is still ongoing. MTBHA, MWF, MBA, MSA, TradBow and every local rod & gun club are able to influence and shape this, but it takes a team effort. The deck's stacked against you, but it always is.

 

[devon deer]

I don't want to gut a cow with a fetus. Pregnant is pregnant though. mtmuley

Our red deer gestation period are the same as your Elk, rut around end September into early October, calves born in late May to mid June.
Our seasons are not, we cannot hunt a hind until 1st November, we can hunt them up until 31st March.
It was extended into March some years ago.
For me, unless I am pressured by a landowner to shoot the hinds, I leave them until 1st December, that way the calves (and late born calves) have the best chance of getting through the winter.
Late born calves are often a result of too many stags getting shot, and the hinds aren't covered until late in the rut as not enough stags in the area to 'do the business'.
To date I have never seen a foetus alive after I have shot the hind, by the time I get to the deer and gralloch (gut) it life is extinct.
Some deer hunters over where I am don't have the stomach to shoot a deer in March, but I look at it this way, better to shoot in March when the calf is inside than shoot in November and make the calf an orphan, often they are not independent by then and will suffer and starve to death over winter.

Just thought I would a little perspective on it from where I live, none of my business how other countries hunt/control their deer/elk populations.

 

[Sytes]

My take from SAJ's comment directly related to public land shoulder season... hense the subject of this thread. Nothing related to damage hunts, or for that matter, B tags.

I didn't draw my B tag this year... damn.

 

[SAJ-99]

I have hunted game damage hunts, and see a distinct difference between the two. One is a wholesale reduction of elk numbers across an entire HD, the other is an acute attempt at resolving an acute problem.

This ^^^ 100%. and it is what makes me think this isn't at all about reducing populations (though that is the arguement), rather it is about controlling who gets to hunt and how to extract money from them. Game Damage hunts are the solution and should be expanded. FWP has the data to support it. RMEF should chime in on Montana trying to reduce the state's elk population by 30%, because that is what they are doing if you interpret the law as written.

 

[Nameless Range]

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[tjones]

I have shot a couple cows on private land depredation hunts. Very limited access and basically a surgical removed type hunt. These elk vary rarely leave private property. I get what the ranch is trying to do.

Shoulder seasons on public is just another variation of the current administrations war on elk.