Shoulder Seasons during Archery...

[JoeSchmo]

I can't believe that this is going to go through... I would like your opinion on this Big Fin and others. It seems so incredibly stupid that I can't even fathom that I feel like I have to defend my opinion as to why it is a VERY, very bad idea.

I've read it and I get it that it pertains to everything except National Forest... talk about limiting and taking away opportunities for archery hunters while catering to a 6 month long "shoulder" season.

If Montana thought rifle hunters were lazy and unethical during October and a snowy November.... just wait until warm September days.

 

[Big Fin]

I can't believe that this is going to go through... I would like your opinion on this Big Fin and others. It seems so incredibly stupid that I can't even fathom that I feel like I have to defend my opinion as to why it is a VERY, very bad idea.

I've read it and I get it that it pertains to everything except National Forest... talk about limiting and taking away opportunities for archery hunters while catering to a 6 month long "shoulder" season.

If Montana thought rifle hunters were lazy and unethical during October and a snowy November.... just wait until warm September days.

Who says "it's going through?"

It has been proposed. Nobody or no group I have talked to supports rifle hunting in the archery seasons, especially on public land. I would be very surprised to see the Commission adopt that part of this.

The theory provided is that it will move elk off these ranches early and make the elk more accessibly to hunters. I don't buy that and I am not sure the Department has evidence to support the claim they have made on that topic.

 

[----]

It's absolute clown shoes crazy. We can't accept their spiel on this one.

 

[antlerradar]

The week between archery and rifle would be a good time. I might support the shoulder season if it was confined to this week on private land for cows only.
I doubt that large ranches with paying rifle hunters would participate. They will just wait and allow cow hunting after the general season.

 

[mtmander]

....

 

[airlocksniffer]

Terrible idea. I'm not so sure about late shoulder seasons either. Some of the proposed seasons go from mid-August all the way through February. Getting hunted that long would no doubt be pretty stressful for the animals.

 

[mtmiller]

Nobody or no group I have talked to supports rifle hunting in the archery seasons, especially on public land. I would be very surprised to see the Commission adopt that part of this.

Commissioner was at meeting tonight and the question was asked. As proposed, this is possible. The commission is aware of the safety issues and it will be specifically discussed in Feb. Possibly open 8/15 - 9/archer opener.

IMO, this will be adjusted, but this is just my opinion from what I have heard at the tentatives meeting. I hope folks will still comment on this and other short comings in the proposed shoulder season.

My local area is included in the shoulder season proposal, but is not as liberal as other portions of the state. I am still nervous this could change in the future by the options available in the proposed shoulder season.

 

[Spartan_Eric]

I have read some of the threads on this site from time to time but have never posted – Thanks Randy for this forum where pertainent information such as this can be discussed and better understood! As an avid Montana archery hunter for many years (lately in the 500 series HDs), I definitely agree that mixing a rifle elk “shoulder season” with the archery elk season would be disasterous on so many levels, and in all likelihood may change the archery elk hunting experience altogether to the point of no return (not to mention the obvious safety concerns).

I will say the potential detrimental magnitude of an overlapping rifle elk shoulder season with the archery elk season has definitely got me off the sidelines and I have expressed my comments through the MT FWP site and directly to John Vore (Game Management Bureau Chief) and to the Montana FWP Commission. Also, I hope to attend the Billings public meeting next week if possible. Based on the talking points I received back from MT FWP I just hope this is not a done deal (especially, given the short timeframes involved and the obvious political overtones). These shoulder seasons appear as they are going to go through in some form (even though the “pilot” shoulder seasons will not be able to be fully evaluated), so a success to me would be to at least preserve the archery elk season as an archery only elk season, and to have the rifle elk shoulder season before and/or after the archery and general/rifle seasons in all cases.

Based on the far reaching nature of this proposal, in the future I will definitely pay more attention to the political climate surrounding Montana hunting and fishing in order to be far more educated at earlier stages of the process.

 

[Wapiti Warrior]

I have sent several letters in stating my objection to the shoulder season (specifically on any public land) and strongly against it starting in August.
I hope they are getting bombarded with opposition to this!
John

 

[RobG]

It would be a bad idea on public land, that would be lost opportunity for archers to say the least, but I don't have a conceptual problem with it on private because those are the animals that are 1) causing problems with the ranchers 2) not really available to the public to hunt if they have already learned to hang on private during the summer. These elk only add to

the population to keep the numbers over objective which puts more pressure on the public land elk. Contrast that with the late hunt where the public animals have migrated to private and you can see that the August private land hunt at least targets the right animals.

 

[mtmiller]

......you can see that the August private land hunt at least targets the right animals.

As long as they are cows and not bulls....my opinion.

 

[----]

As long as they are cows and not bulls....my opinion.

Does anyone know if any of these seasons are sounding like they're going to be either sex?

I was under the impression that was nixed back at the December Commissioners meeting, but they also nixed having shoulder seasons on National Forest, and that's sounding like it's going to happen.

 

[Spartan_Eric]

In terms of only applying to “private land” that may be a moving target, and would likely include Block Management land. The guidance MT FWP put out for the current “pilot” shoulder season includes BLM and State Trust land as well:

These shoulder season opportunities are available on private lands, Bureau of Land Management lands, and State of Montana School Trust Lands only.

 

[JoeSchmo]

Who says "it's going through?"

It has been proposed. Nobody or no group I have talked to supports rifle hunting in the archery seasons, especially on public land. I would be very surprised to see the Commission adopt that part of this.

The theory provided is that it will move elk off these ranches early and make the elk more accessibly to hunters. I don't buy that and I am not sure the Department has evidence to support the claim they have made on that topic.

At this point... don't underestimate the ineptness of FWP. Them even having these conversations and debating the issue is scary as hell!!

 

[BuzzH]

Seems like the big picture is always lost on the "needs" of hunters or groups of hunters...

At this point, its pretty apparent that the MTFWP views elk as slightly less intrusive than knapweed...very slightly.

As long as the proposal ends in dead elk, and moving closer to 96k elk in MT by the MTFWP estimates, I'm all for it.

MTFWP's new slogan, "Everyone must suffer"...no reason for archery hunters to be exempt.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

At this point... don't underestimate the ineptness of FWP. Them even having these conversations and debating the issue is scary as hell!!

Don't confuse ineptness with politicization of wildlife management. This is trickle down from the Capitol Building.

 

[TRS_Montana]

Don't confuse ineptness with politicization of wildlife management. This is trickle down from the Capitol Building.

I wouldn't be as outraged over this if it could be blamed on ineptitude. There is clear intent with these regs, and it is not driven by ignorance.

 

[tjones]

So if there is a early shoulder season going on in an HD during archery season, that would mean bow hunters in the same HD would need to wear orange? Same with wolf hunters in an HD during a late shoulder season. Right?

 

[TRS_Montana]

So if there is a early shoulder season going on in an HD during archery season, that would mean bow hunters in the same HD would need to wear orange? Same with wolf hunters in an HD during a late shoulder season. Right?

I would imagine this would be put in the regs. I would also leave any decoy at home...

 

[JoeSchmo]

I wouldn't be as outraged over this if it could be blamed on ineptitude. There is clear intent with these regs, and it is not driven by ignorance.

I would absolutely blame this on ineptitude!! I'm talking about "statistical" and "number based" mathematics which is driving the intent of the regs. Yeah, they do have a plan formulated. But their math is pathetic at best. Sure, sure they can supply you or me with truckloads of data... that doesn't mean it's good data and/or accurate data. The problem with FWP data is that an intelligent high schooler could punch holes in it all day. Now give someone who has been involved more statistical and actuary planning than almost anyone inside FWP and try to force feed them FWPs garbage numbers... I don't like it. Not one bit.