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rwc101
Guest
You'll have to ask them though none of the e-bike owners I know are lazy or destroyers of the countryside.
Secretary of the Interior allows E-bike access on BLM lands
- Thread starter NYyotekiller
- Start date
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Looks more like a fat Bubba bike to me."The Fat Kat electric hunting bike is a total game changer for hunting public land".
Don't look at it as a (nother) "thing to worry about". Look at it as another potential interesting "what's the best" thread topic................
And imagine the possibilities: Sitka camo edition frame, OnX enabled navigation, Kifaru frame mounted rifle bearer - the list could be endless
davinski
Well-known member
I have an e-bike and love it. You just have to pay attention to the travel rules and follow them, like any other vehicle. I'm super jealous of people who can hunt right from their doorstep, I'm truly happy for you. But most of us take one sort of vehicle or another to the trailhead where we begin hiking and hunting. I can say they are definitely for travel and not for looking around. When you're biking, you're focused on biking. If you're trying to look around for critters and biking..you're crashing. They really can only physically go places a regular mountain bike can go. They're not magic, you're not going up any steep grades with them. But I can go about 20 miles on reasonable grades carrying a 25 lb pack.
One point I didn't realize until I started getting into them, is the tech changes and shrinks daily. I've heard stories of ethically flexible competitive bikers sneaking itty bitty e-assist tech onto their regular looking bike. It's not a recipe for success to make every ranger an e-bike policeman and expert. I mean deciding if a bike is electric or not is fairly easy now but I guarantee you will get harder every year.
I'm sure the arguments/conversations will go on for quite some time.
One point I didn't realize until I started getting into them, is the tech changes and shrinks daily. I've heard stories of ethically flexible competitive bikers sneaking itty bitty e-assist tech onto their regular looking bike. It's not a recipe for success to make every ranger an e-bike policeman and expert. I mean deciding if a bike is electric or not is fairly easy now but I guarantee you will get harder every year.
I'm sure the arguments/conversations will go on for quite some time.
Rzrbck918
Well-known member
Why is this a bad thing? I’m not a biker so I don’t have any experience with relevant concerns. Do they damage the area? Or is it just a shortcut that allows people who thus far haven’t been willing to put in the work to access places some of us have had to ourselves for a while?
Keeptrying
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28mph without pedaling sounds like a motorcycle to me.
This. Changes. Everything.-This is posted on the front page of Rambo bikes web page. They even refer to them as motor bikes.
Nothing against motor powered bicycles. For trails and gated closed to motorized use roads, it exceeds the human powered element of motion. It's an attempt to re-define "motorized", IMO.
grizzly_
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One positive note is that the order stipulates that e-bikes are still not allowed where other bicycles are not allowed. They didn't open more trails, just included e-bikes under the definition of bicycle.
If the concern is from a hunting standpoint, the states can still limit them while in the pursuit of game, much like Idaho has done with their Motorized Vehicle Rule in many units.
If the concern is from a hunting standpoint, the states can still limit them while in the pursuit of game, much like Idaho has done with their Motorized Vehicle Rule in many units.
one ate E grain
Active member
Only BLM, Parks, and Refuges for now, I'm not aware of the dept of Agriculture making a similar rule, yet. My hope is that it leads to greater mechanized regulation. Currently mountain bikes are making trails and getting them approved retroactively. Trails should be planned so as not to fragment habitat. A little bit of regulation and even licensing would in my estimation be a good thing, might even make for some "non consumptive" funding. E bikes are quiet recreators too.
shootbrownelk
Well-known member
With some tweaking and a name change by the manufacturer they just might be built to fit that definition. Never say never.
shootbrownelk
Well-known member
They sure aren't cheap. I saw one in our LGS for $2,500.00+. It was a Rambo "bike".
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rwc101
Guest
Per the order, ebikes allowed in these areas will be limited to 750 watts (about 1hp). The order also stipulates they cannot go faster than 20mph on flat pavement without pedaling/28mph with pedaling. These aren't electric motocross bikes, and the order includes several restrictions to bar electric motorcycles.
You don't have to worry about those bikes clogging up the backcountry. They're cheap junk that will break within the first 5 miles of any backcountry trail. Cheap trail worthy ebikes run $3,500+.
Of course. Because they are just like all the atv riders who claim to always follow the rules. That's why we never see places with new illegal atv trails on them.
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rwc101
Guest
Cool. Ban things because a minority of people might abuse them. That can't backfire at all.
Always a terrible argument to chop an apple tree over a few bad apples. Good luck having anything apple related again.
I'm opposed to "motorized" modes of transportation regardless the power while on a road or trail closed to "motorized" travel.
While there may be bigger fish to fry from one perspective, this fish will grow if not caught and fried.
I'm opposed to "motorized" modes of transportation regardless the power while on a road or trail closed to "motorized" travel.
While there may be bigger fish to fry from one perspective, this fish will grow if not caught and fried.
Keeptrying
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So enforcement of power standards will rely on what exactly?
I have a friend whose 25hp Mercury has 75hp emblems. It's funny. I fail to see how an e-bike won't be able to do the same thing in reverse.
I get it though. You and people like you want an electric motorcycle to zoom around in non-motorized areas. Seems disingenuous to me, but people want what they want and will rationalize it through any means necessary. So be it. Before long the same group will push for access to Wilderness as well and depending on who is in charge their "bicycle" will be allowed. Oh well.
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rwc101
Guest
Nope. Nowhere in this thread have I endorsed ebikes or the decision by the Secretary of the Interior. I don't own one and likely never will. Several mountain biking groups lobbied against this decision. I'm personally not a huge fan of the order. All I've done in this thread is challenge misinformation about the bikes and the order.
As for the enforcement, the bike industry made the 750 Watt limit pretty standard well before this decision. The manufacturers make bikes that they can actually sell which means they will compliant with the order.
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rwc101
Guest
Thanks for assuming that I am arguing in bad faith though.
You are arguing as if what is available today, right now, at this very moment, for today’s retail prices, and today’s specifications will remain static. With any technology, it will improve exponentially for the better, while prices plummet. 20 years from now the 20 mph bikes will weigh half of what they do right now, cost equivalent to what $400 is now, and have a 100+ hour run time before you have to set them in the sun for a two hour recharge
Remember cell phones? Plasma TVs, 4K TVs, laptops, tablets? Remember when the idea of electric cars was a joke? Ever heard of Tesla?
The smartest people in the world are backed with billions of dollars in capital to develop electric, battery powered everything. The focus may not be bikes for you to hunt with, but those contributions will bleed into this market.
The rule is a mistake.
20 years from now, for half the price of a new bow, you will be able to take a motorized vehicle that goes 20 mph and doesn’t need charged all week on trails that last week were closed to all motorized access.
Example of how fast technology changes;
I work in land surveying. When I graduated in 2012 UAV technology was in its infancy and nobody was really using it commercially.
2 years ago most reputable companies were either using it themselves or sub contracting the work that was appropriate for drone use to companies that did have them.
Today, the UAVs they were using two years ago are outdated POS that nobody wants. Companies are paying less money for them to do more and any company that you as an employee want to work for has them, and any that you want to hire uses them.
Pretty much every newer technology follows this same trend. This is no different.
I work in land surveying. When I graduated in 2012 UAV technology was in its infancy and nobody was really using it commercially.
2 years ago most reputable companies were either using it themselves or sub contracting the work that was appropriate for drone use to companies that did have them.
Today, the UAVs they were using two years ago are outdated POS that nobody wants. Companies are paying less money for them to do more and any company that you as an employee want to work for has them, and any that you want to hire uses them.
Pretty much every newer technology follows this same trend. This is no different.
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rwc101
Guest
Mountain bikes have increased in price over time not decreased even compensating for inflation. $400 will never buy you a trail worthy bike with electric assist or without it. Sure, the tech will drop to slightly lower price points, but the idea that it will cost "half the price of a new bow" is ridiculous. I am not aware of a Class II bike (with throttle) that is made for trails. They are geared towards city riding. Anyway, a bike that can do 20mph on level pavement will not be able to do so on a trail with any gradient. Just more falsehoods about ebikes but people want what they want and will rationalize it through any means necessary.
Again, I have not endorsed the order. All I'm doing is dispelling some serious misinformation and outright falsehoods about the bikes that keep popping up. The order can be changed if improving technology has adverse effects on the environment. Why this is being treated as if it's set in stone is beyond me.
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