I will be buying a new rifle in the next 6 months. I have read and will continue to read all the threads about "what caliber should I get" and "what brand should I get" that pop up often. I currently own a Rem. 700 BDL 22-250 that has been an incredibly good shooting gun and has never let me down. I also own a Model Seven, .260 that is decent, just not a terrific shooter for me yet. So my question is, why do I very seldom see anyone recommend a Rem. 700 series when people keep asking about new guns? It's always, Tikka, Howa, Ruger, Win., etc. , VERY seldom does the word Remington come up until someone wants to take just the action from one and custom build off of that. A guy at the range yesterday had a stock Rem. 700 "Long Range" model. He was testing different loads and putting 4 rounds into a hole half the size of a dime at 100 yards with just a bipod and a bag under the rear of the stock. I was impressed and wondered why more people here don't talk Rem. 700 anymore. (aside from the trigger safety issue and one guy saying they rust too easily now)
Rem. 700
- Thread starter Muskeez
- Start date
MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
I don't think they are bad rifles at all. I don't have any heartburn with the other rifles you mentioned either though.
Last winter I finally replaced my old predator rifle with a 2014 vintage 700 SPS Stainless in .223. Completely stock with a 4-12x40 VX-2, it would put 5 x 55grn V-max (factory Fiocchi) just over an inch (I am pretty sure the 5th was my fault). It has since been treated to a Bell and Carlson Alaskan stock, Timney trigger, and Speedlock firing pin assembly, making it even better. A couple more weeks and it will be out chasing coyotes and fox.
A full magazine, when bone stock.
Last winter I finally replaced my old predator rifle with a 2014 vintage 700 SPS Stainless in .223. Completely stock with a 4-12x40 VX-2, it would put 5 x 55grn V-max (factory Fiocchi) just over an inch (I am pretty sure the 5th was my fault). It has since been treated to a Bell and Carlson Alaskan stock, Timney trigger, and Speedlock firing pin assembly, making it even better. A couple more weeks and it will be out chasing coyotes and fox.
A full magazine, when bone stock.
Gimphunter
New member
I got a 700 bdl sf in 300wsm wood stock and have been pretty happy so far only had it bedded and my friends first recipe on a load worked well 1/2 group 200 yards. I was happy with that haven't touched it since ,hell it shot good out of the box.
I have a700 in 25/06 also ---love it! good rifles.
Good luck .
I have a700 in 25/06 also ---love it! good rifles.
Good luck .
Flatland Crusoe
Member
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The first problem with Remington is that their QC has gone in the hole after being bought out by holding companies in the last decade.
The R700 isn't a cheap gun to produce relative to guns like Ruger American because it was designed around 1965 technology not 2015 CNC and plastic molding and Remington has cut every corner to sell them for $400 at walmart. There are too many really good for $350-$600 guns out there with the Ruger American and Tikka T3 that produce hunting quality accuracy, durable and very light weight for the same money.
Remington 700's have a huge aftermarket, but they aren't cheap guns to work on because they require a lathe for pretty much everything past trigger installations. You have to machine new bolt handles on and you need a lathe to headspace a barrel or install a new bolt. They don't have good extraction so you have to machine a Sako or M16 style extractor onto the bolt face because the extractor is just a lip on the bolt face.
The 700's came out right at the time of Winchester's famous '64 melt down and probably picked up a huge section of the market on that alone. Also people love to chase any gun with US military heritage and the M40 is just a 700 with a lot of upgrades.
My experience having gone down the R700 customization rabbit hole is that I'm really happy with the end product after spending more in aftermarket parts than I did on the base gun. But I'm not sure if I would do it again or just buy a 700 clone like a stiller action and start from there. Really I could have just bought a lot nicer gun from the start.
The R700 isn't a cheap gun to produce relative to guns like Ruger American because it was designed around 1965 technology not 2015 CNC and plastic molding and Remington has cut every corner to sell them for $400 at walmart. There are too many really good for $350-$600 guns out there with the Ruger American and Tikka T3 that produce hunting quality accuracy, durable and very light weight for the same money.
Remington 700's have a huge aftermarket, but they aren't cheap guns to work on because they require a lathe for pretty much everything past trigger installations. You have to machine new bolt handles on and you need a lathe to headspace a barrel or install a new bolt. They don't have good extraction so you have to machine a Sako or M16 style extractor onto the bolt face because the extractor is just a lip on the bolt face.
The 700's came out right at the time of Winchester's famous '64 melt down and probably picked up a huge section of the market on that alone. Also people love to chase any gun with US military heritage and the M40 is just a 700 with a lot of upgrades.
My experience having gone down the R700 customization rabbit hole is that I'm really happy with the end product after spending more in aftermarket parts than I did on the base gun. But I'm not sure if I would do it again or just buy a 700 clone like a stiller action and start from there. Really I could have just bought a lot nicer gun from the start.
VAspeedgoat
Well-known member
I have always been a remington guy. I think most people are shy of the safety issue and thus don't talk about it much. Routine thorough cleaning of the trigger assembly will take care of that or just replace the trigger if you want. Many are adamant to never own one. I disagree but to each their own. I personally think the cdl is the most natural feeling production gun made. Lots of aftermarket products and they are excellent shooters as plain factory rifles.
WapitiBob
Well-known member
The Rem Long Range is a different animal than the SPS.
My SPS was missing rifling. How the heck does that get out the door??
My SPS was missing rifling. How the heck does that get out the door??
TimeOnTarget
Well-known member
And the got rid of all but a handful of warranty stations.
The above mentioned reasons I think...mine has worked fine since I got it in 78' used. I have put in a Timney and it's on a Hogue stock now,but it still shoots 1/2" groups most any day.But it weighs 10lbs w scope.
I'm just looking for a lighter quality -06 now.
I would buy another Rem if it fits the bill,and the older ones are still in demand.
I'm just looking for a lighter quality -06 now.
I would buy another Rem if it fits the bill,and the older ones are still in demand.
smorgado
Member
My two favorite rifles are my 700 30-06 mountaineers edition and my 700 223. That being said I have had both rifles since I was 16. But they are still my most accurate. Don't know how much the 700 has changed in the last 17 years.
ShootsManyBullets
Well-known member
I've owned a couple 700s and found that they handled well and shot fine. I had one go off unprovoked and decided I didn't want to own one any longer so that's that.
Guys on the site are giving you excellent feedback from their experiences. I like the Winchester actions a little better as well as the Sako but the Sako will run you more money than some of the lower priced competitors which are all good guns for the money IMO.
Lots of good choices out there these days.
Guys on the site are giving you excellent feedback from their experiences. I like the Winchester actions a little better as well as the Sako but the Sako will run you more money than some of the lower priced competitors which are all good guns for the money IMO.
Lots of good choices out there these days.
Gunner46
Well-known member
Remington's quality control has nose dived in the past few years and the new models they have come out with to compete with Ruger & Savage have been a clear example of that decline. Dollar for dollar, you can get a much better rifle than what Rem. has to offer at this time. You won't find too many post around here of someone getting 1/2" groups for a straight out of the box Remington they just paid $289 for.
I must have missed something along the way. I don't think anyone was looking for a $289 gun to shoot half inch groups. Are you saying the 700's sell for $289 now days? I suppose you just hate on them enough that you think that's what they are worth? The 700 I saw at the range getting less than 1/2" groups has a MSRP of like $829, I believe the guy said he paid $700 ish for the gun, and more for the scope. It shoots better than the $4000 gun his brother bought. I sure wouldn't expect to find a gun for $289 that shoots that well either, of any brand.
Mudranger1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2010
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Don't be fooled. This little Remington will do just what he said can't be done but I think I paid $299 plus tax for it. Is it a 700 quality nope but it shoots better than my 700 does
Bambistew
Well-known member
I think I have about half a dozen 700s. They all shoot better than I'm capable of. All are bedded and triggers worked. They are all 10+ years old though. I've traded a few as well. Actually picked up a like new in box SPS 300wm recently. I haven't shot it, was thinking of screwing a 416 Taylor tube on it and putting it in a better stock. For the $300 I paid for it it was hard to pass up.
Of all the different rifles I own and have owned, if I had to choose just one to shoot and keep, it would be a SS BDL in 7 Rem Mag. It's point and click, get out the knife every single time. It's probably killed 2 dozen elk and at least twice that many deer and other critters. If it was just a pound lighter... the two mountain Rifles would be a close second.
Of all the different rifles I own and have owned, if I had to choose just one to shoot and keep, it would be a SS BDL in 7 Rem Mag. It's point and click, get out the knife every single time. It's probably killed 2 dozen elk and at least twice that many deer and other critters. If it was just a pound lighter... the two mountain Rifles would be a close second.
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MudRanger, what model is that gun?
Bambistew, what model are your Mtn rifles? & What kind of groups do you get with them?
I understand the theory that the older guns may be better. The products I work with for a living sure aren't what they used to be either. My 700 is an early 90's model that I bought new. I am hearing people say the quality isn't there anymore, I'm just wondering if they really do suck now compared to what they used to be, or is it more of a generational thing where we like the newer companies because we don't like it when the older companies change a good thing? I know this old guy doesn't like change in too many things. I assumed a 700 from the 90's would be the same as a 700 today. Maybe I'm wrong. Thank you for your input guys!
Bambistew, what model are your Mtn rifles? & What kind of groups do you get with them?
I understand the theory that the older guns may be better. The products I work with for a living sure aren't what they used to be either. My 700 is an early 90's model that I bought new. I am hearing people say the quality isn't there anymore, I'm just wondering if they really do suck now compared to what they used to be, or is it more of a generational thing where we like the newer companies because we don't like it when the older companies change a good thing? I know this old guy doesn't like change in too many things. I assumed a 700 from the 90's would be the same as a 700 today. Maybe I'm wrong. Thank you for your input guys!
sbhooper
Well-known member
The quality control on the newer Remingtons, is not even in the ballpark with those of old. My buddy is a police sniper and went through three before finding a tactical that was not defective. The third one was a great rifle. He just came out to the house yesterday to use my range to test a brand new Remington with a Night Force scope on it. The rifle shot well, but was nowhere near as smooth as what Remingtons used to be noted for.
I bought a new 7 mag SPS in 2011 to take on a moose hunt. I could not believe how rough and cheap the rifle felt compared to older models. The rifle shot 1/2-3/4 minute and still does, so at least the barrel is good. After a spring replacement, the X Mark Pro trigger is good now, too. I paid just under $600 for the left-hand magnum, so it was not terribly expensive.
For overall feel, I will take my Ruger American or my Savage any day. If I was to buy another rifle, I would look real hard at the Savage Weather Warrior or a Tika.
I bought a new 7 mag SPS in 2011 to take on a moose hunt. I could not believe how rough and cheap the rifle felt compared to older models. The rifle shot 1/2-3/4 minute and still does, so at least the barrel is good. After a spring replacement, the X Mark Pro trigger is good now, too. I paid just under $600 for the left-hand magnum, so it was not terribly expensive.
For overall feel, I will take my Ruger American or my Savage any day. If I was to buy another rifle, I would look real hard at the Savage Weather Warrior or a Tika.
Flatland Crusoe
Member
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- 572
Having worked extensively in Manufacturing I can tell you a lot of it has to do with working under a holding company/private equity firm vs a family or the original company founders. Its pretty similar to being publicly traded if not worse in that the people who own you and decide where the money goes don't understand the product in a lot of cases, but rather look at the bottom line and offload the company in a few years. Remington has been under such an umbrella since 2006 with the Freedom group/Cerebus capital which is a company specializing in "distressed investing" and also owns Marlin and DPMS. If you paid attention around 5 years ago when Remington took over Marlin manufacture they temporarily pulled a lot of the product lines because they couldn't get the QC right to make a functioning lever gun reliably. The are affectionately know as "Remlins" for a reason post 08/09. DPMS also used to be part of the ABCD of the AR's aren't hardly more than another bargain brand today.
When it comes to firearms a lot of cost comes in finishing hence why an SPS cost a lot less than a CDL. If you look at the 700 line you could still buy one for $350 on black friday and $400-$450 all day long the rest of the year. I don't think those costs have changed much in the last 20 years or at least at any level to account for inflation. Those costs came out somewhere. Finish and function QC is the primary issue. You will find plenty of guys with 700's that shoot well for $800-$1000 or that would be the old costs today if you adjusted for inflation.
Of the post 2006 Remingtons I've been around I've seen an undersized 870 chamber, an 870 super express got a ton of rust in a relatively climate controlled garage NIB, an 11-87 not cycle when brand new. It isn't just a 700 problem its a Remington corporate problem.
Even with the garbage finish most any 700 will shoot lights out in a composite stock or a bedded laminate stock. The factory plastic stocks are notoriously noodles and my SPS went from a 1.0-1.5 MOA gun to 0.5 MOA as soon as I dropped it in a bell and carlson stock. Some sort of after market trigger is also more or less a requirement in my mind for a 700 to get good accuracy. I have about $600 in parts on my $450 SPS and it has shot a few quarter inch groups and half inch groups regularly. No one questions they are good shooters with a little work and there certainly isn't a shortage of knowledge and parts for them. A lot of target guns like the R700 5R series which are $1300 stainless gun with factory composite stocks which is what you need to get one to shoot well. Last I checked you could get a stiller (R700 clone) action barreled for under $1500 so its no more money than blueprinting the action on a new gun.
If you look at the major historied US gun companies all have gone bankrupt a time or 2 and had downswings in quality around those points, Winchester in 64, Savage in the late 80's, Winchester again around 2003 had a major reorganization, Colt has constantly been limping on edge of bankruptcy for years. This isn't a new thing and its not going away. If you assumed all Winchester was good brand you'd have spotting scope from Walmart that cost $60, a $12 knife and a $7 made in china camo backpack.
