This also gets to the point of needing good regulation and good regulators to enforce them. I am not for government waste, but paying the DEQ staff according to their worth would make the position much more appealing. We want very intelligent and capable people in those positions. That's not to say there are not great mine managers and environmental engineers in industry that care deeply for the environment, but they are hemmed in by investors and executives that eye profit. We also need elected legislatures that will staff DEQ accordingly and keep their eye on the long term impact which ultimately falls to each of us as voters to keep them accountable.
Ranchers Shouldering the Waste of Mining and Coal Bed Methane?
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
WyoCoalMiner
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Most winters that is one deer killing stretch of highway. The crossings will be a great thing for those deer.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
The article briefly touch on this detail of the Tongue River and its tributaries, but then went on to basically dismiss it.
wsgs-2011-mp-90.pdf https://share.google/IiXIBa2dJ3NFbWWGF
Mentioned coalbed methane development has been replaced by fracking, but didn't elaborate. Used the opinions of a legacy rancher for most of the information presented in the article. Kind of reminded me of a 60 Minutes "news" segment.
wsgs-2011-mp-90.pdf https://share.google/IiXIBa2dJ3NFbWWGF
Mentioned coalbed methane development has been replaced by fracking, but didn't elaborate. Used the opinions of a legacy rancher for most of the information presented in the article. Kind of reminded me of a 60 Minutes "news" segment.
It’s definitely better, but problems still exist. Such as the zombie/ghost/orphan oil/gas wells in Texas.
WyoCoalMiner
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Interesting research article.
Interesting study. The CBM boom was mostly bust by 2010/2011 in terms of drilling and produced water. I'd be curious to see if this research was done at an earlier point, when discharge was much higher.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Irrigation practices could have an effect on salinity levels in the arid west.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
This is the figurative mission statement of one political party...
Drill Baby Drill
elkduds
Well-known member
. . .and sell off public lands. Private property is the only property that matters.
Last edited:
No, not really. As I told you privately, I do not support the sell-off of public lands to private owners or to the States that can then turn around and do the same thing such as what Mike Lee has tried to push through. It would appear your reading comprehension needs some work. I consider public lands a national treasure that should be maintained for all and have been very consistent on that position. But I do acknowledge and support private property rights 100%. That is two very distinct and different topics. It's a shame you don't support one of the foundational tenants that formed the US in the first place and is enshrined in the 5th Amendment (and supported by the 4th Amendment). Perhaps you should read the writings of James Madison and Alexander Hamilton. If you support the "No Kings" movement, then you (should) support the right of the individual to own private property and have that property protected from unreasonable seizure. Monarchies (Kings) claim ownership of all the lands in their kingdom and only graciously allow individuals the opportunity to own land in exchange for loyalty and service or lease that land at a (usually) steep price.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Man, there are some damning quotes:
Former Gov. Judy Martz, a Republican who famously said she didn’t mind being a “lapdog” for industry, was so eager to fan the flames of the CBM boom that in the early 2000s, she reportedly drank a glass of discharge water to ease locals’ water-quality fears.
Another background article from a decade ago.
wyofile.com
Under the administration of Republican Gov. Jim Geringer, Wyoming was eager to swing the doors open wide for the promising new drilling boom, leading to a letter that became famous—known as the “Go Blue” letter. The letter, from Assistant Director of Wyoming’s Office of State Lands and Investments Harold Kemp, urged companies to drill on the state sections, which are shown in blue on land ownership maps.
Kemp wrote, “… if permitting costs on federal lands consistently exceed those same costs on State of Wyoming lands by as many as four-hundred times or more, (as little as $20 on State land and as much as $8,000 on federal land) there seems to be a compelling reason to evaluate placing that drilling venture on Wyoming State land. As such, we’re asking you to take another look at the blue squares on the Wyoming Land Status map and ‘fill them in’ with your well symbols.”
The letter took even a sharper turn into the realm of state-sanctioned boom-mentality propaganda, stating, “We stand ready here at the Office of State Lands, assisted by Wyoming’s Office of the Oil and Gas Supervisor, (Oil and Gas Conservation Commission) to provide all the assistance you need to ‘Go Blue.’ Try it!”
And try it they did. State sections, many of which are isolated islands in a sea of private surface, were developed, often without concern for the state surface or the surrounding private surface operations. Though the main duty of Kemp’s office was and is to maximize the financial return from state lands, many conservation groups and landowners found the “Go Blue” letter irresponsible. In their eyes it helped operators—many eager to begin making good on their investments—bypass the good-faith requirement to work out meaningful surface use agreements with landowners.
“Going blue” often led to operators discharging coal-bed methane water on the surface with little regard to the downstream surface owners. This exacerbated one of the most contentious issues of the play, pitting neighbors against one another for gas production that resulted in large volumes of briny groundwater flowing year-long over ephemeral draws. Historically, these draws had been dry most of the year and prime grazing grounds in the arid Powder River Basin.
The red highlight seems to be contradictory to @WyoCoalMiner's claims, but maybe it was a different time.
The MTFP article just reaffirms how little I trust industry, regulators, and politicians to protect my health and the environment.
Former Gov. Judy Martz, a Republican who famously said she didn’t mind being a “lapdog” for industry, was so eager to fan the flames of the CBM boom that in the early 2000s, she reportedly drank a glass of discharge water to ease locals’ water-quality fears.
Another background article from a decade ago.
Coal-bed Methane: Boom, bust and hard lessons - WyoFile
Wyoming’s coal-bed methane boom in the early 2000s stirred controversies over land rights, mineral rights, the disposal of water and—at every turn—politics.
wyofile.com
Under the administration of Republican Gov. Jim Geringer, Wyoming was eager to swing the doors open wide for the promising new drilling boom, leading to a letter that became famous—known as the “Go Blue” letter. The letter, from Assistant Director of Wyoming’s Office of State Lands and Investments Harold Kemp, urged companies to drill on the state sections, which are shown in blue on land ownership maps.
Kemp wrote, “… if permitting costs on federal lands consistently exceed those same costs on State of Wyoming lands by as many as four-hundred times or more, (as little as $20 on State land and as much as $8,000 on federal land) there seems to be a compelling reason to evaluate placing that drilling venture on Wyoming State land. As such, we’re asking you to take another look at the blue squares on the Wyoming Land Status map and ‘fill them in’ with your well symbols.”
The letter took even a sharper turn into the realm of state-sanctioned boom-mentality propaganda, stating, “We stand ready here at the Office of State Lands, assisted by Wyoming’s Office of the Oil and Gas Supervisor, (Oil and Gas Conservation Commission) to provide all the assistance you need to ‘Go Blue.’ Try it!”
And try it they did. State sections, many of which are isolated islands in a sea of private surface, were developed, often without concern for the state surface or the surrounding private surface operations. Though the main duty of Kemp’s office was and is to maximize the financial return from state lands, many conservation groups and landowners found the “Go Blue” letter irresponsible. In their eyes it helped operators—many eager to begin making good on their investments—bypass the good-faith requirement to work out meaningful surface use agreements with landowners.
“Going blue” often led to operators discharging coal-bed methane water on the surface with little regard to the downstream surface owners. This exacerbated one of the most contentious issues of the play, pitting neighbors against one another for gas production that resulted in large volumes of briny groundwater flowing year-long over ephemeral draws. Historically, these draws had been dry most of the year and prime grazing grounds in the arid Powder River Basin.
The red highlight seems to be contradictory to @WyoCoalMiner's claims, but maybe it was a different time.
The MTFP article just reaffirms how little I trust industry, regulators, and politicians to protect my health and the environment.
WyoCoalMiner
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- 431
I said nothing in regard to permitting costs. Cost to permit is not the same as reclamation bonding.Man, there are some damning quotes:
Former Gov. Judy Martz, a Republican who famously said she didn’t mind being a “lapdog” for industry, was so eager to fan the flames of the CBM boom that in the early 2000s, she reportedly drank a glass of discharge water to ease locals’ water-quality fears.
Another background article from a decade ago.
Coal-bed Methane: Boom, bust and hard lessons - WyoFile
Wyoming’s coal-bed methane boom in the early 2000s stirred controversies over land rights, mineral rights, the disposal of water and—at every turn—politics.
Under the administration of Republican Gov. Jim Geringer, Wyoming was eager to swing the doors open wide for the promising new drilling boom, leading to a letter that became famous—known as the “Go Blue” letter. The letter, from Assistant Director of Wyoming’s Office of State Lands and Investments Harold Kemp, urged companies to drill on the state sections, which are shown in blue on land ownership maps.
Kemp wrote, “… if permitting costs on federal lands consistently exceed those same costs on State of Wyoming lands by as many as four-hundred times or more, (as little as $20 on State land and as much as $8,000 on federal land) there seems to be a compelling reason to evaluate placing that drilling venture on Wyoming State land. As such, we’re asking you to take another look at the blue squares on the Wyoming Land Status map and ‘fill them in’ with your well symbols.”
The red highlight seems to be contradictory to @WyoCoalMiner's claims, but maybe it was a different time.
elkduds
Well-known member
Thanks for demonstrating for others the pervasive flaw in your private correspondence. "It's a shame you don't support. . ." People know what they said or wrote. Your tactic of inserting your bias into statements you wrongly attribute to others has likely ended more discussions than you realize. I said nothing above about opposition to private property rights. So everything you wrote above after "It's a shame" was you telling yourself what you already believe, moot to me. There's this principle in communication, checking for understanding, in which you seek input from whoever you are interfacing with to see if they understand you and you understand them. Perhaps you should read
Whether you do or don't, correcting your "you were wrong when you said that thing you never said" assertions is not the responsibility anyone except you. Boredom with and ignoring your tiresome, manipulative strategies of arguing do not connote agreement with you.
I thank you and everyone who advocates on behalf of our public lands legacy and treasures.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Oh, I assumed they were included because you need a bond to be permitted.
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