I haven't found what the USFS does a good job of to be honest. My take is the USFS has already turned over the management of wildlife on it's land to the state so it probably makes the most sense to allow the states to mange things like the grazing and timber resources along with local law enforcement as opposed to federal LEO's. States are simply better at managing land and get more for the resources. Sheriffs departments are simply better at enforcing laws than the USFS LEO's. Grazing rights states could probably get around $20 per AUM, vs $1.35 the feds get. States will get more logging projects done, more wood utilized, less fires, less $ wasted fighting fires, etc.... You see it around places like Bozeman where USFS land is completely overgrown and projects get stopped by lawsuits but miraculously on state land the projects keep moving.
The reason everyone stays around after fires is to milk uncle sam for every last dime. It's a big business opportunity.
So I think we can check the following off what the USFS is good at.
1. Managing forests, utilizing wood, etc.. Very little focus on utilization.
2. Managing grazing rights, literally getting pennies on the dollar and not holding lease holders accountable.
3. Managing wildlife, already turned over to state,
4. Running a nationwide trade school where they have to hire contractors to do most of the actual work since USFS cant' seem to get it done. No idea how this happened.
5. Managing recreation, evident by the offices all being closed on weekend so usfs staff can go home. lol
6. Enforcing laws. This is all but non existent for off roading, littering, camping more than 14 days, unoccupied campers, etc...
7. Managing fuels, fire management where they spend nothing in an area for wood utilization but will drop millions to fight a fire. Even worse situations like New Mexico where USFS staff caused billions in damages. Great management right there.
8. Real Estate. With so many claims, private land mixed in huge pieces of USFS, private homes on leased USFS land, Land locked inaccessible land, etc. its hard to say they really have done a good job of managing the real-estate situation.
So to be honest I am really not sure what function the USFS could really do other than a small staff that worked with the states to collect information on forests while turning most of the management of the land and funding over to the states. At that point the states would take over and hire the best staff including some of the best USFS folks while leaving most of the dead weight to find another job.
As far as me I have personally built fire stations with huge reimbursement funding from fires on federal land. My family is heavily involved in federal contracting so I have seen this incompetence from many federal agencies not just the USFS. I have done many contracting projects for the USFS and have had many interaction with USFS Job Corps training centers. For example I managed a full renovation of the USFS offices in Chadron NE, where for 3 months we watched a girl who literally sat and played on her phone almost all day. She did not realize we could see her and she literally just played all day. I have been around many USFS fire crews including my brother is a life long USFS employee including working fires. So yea I know a bit about the USFS. I also own businesses across the street from the USDA office so I have first hand knowledge on what they accomplish on a daily basis.
As far as fire crews it just seems like a huge money grab. Contractors, fire fighters, VFD's, air support crews, etc all get in line to make a killing off the USFS. I am sure you have seen plenty of it.
I appreciate your honesty
Thanks for taking the time for sharing your perspective. There's a lot of criticism in here that I agree with, I just disagree with the remedy.
1. I'd like to see more utilization, my forest has been pretty successful in using the Good Neighbor Authority with the state to get projects accomplished.
2. I don't know anyone who disagrees with this, except for lease holders. It is generally up to the Permit Administrator to make sure the permittee is in compliance.
3. In my opinion the state held management of the wildlife first, the FS was reluctant to get into management. The state still manages the game, but the FS now considers some sensitive or threatened species when making decisions.
4. Yeah, Job Corps... not the best representation for the FS (although the program is administered by the Dept of Labor), very limited success. That said, I see the Job Corps as the last opportunity for these kids to get some life skills. Without Job Corps they are probably on the fast track to jail, and maybe a few of them with Job Corps training will choose a different path. Either way we're paying for these kids.
5. Generally agreed, although I work at a 7 day/week station (all functions) from Memorial Day to Columbus Day. We get calls for information for all over the place on the weekend.
6. Again agreed. There's one LEO for 2.5 million acres here, he has a coworker (for the other million acres on forest) and a patrol captain. He can spend a whole week writing tickets from the pavement and never think about driving 60 miles of dirt north or south.
7. Yes, it is frustrating. I'll blame litigation for a lot of this. There's also not much market for small diameter wood that I'm aware of.
8. I have no experience with this, so I can't offer any thoughts other than it doesn't sound like a good situation.
There's good money to be made in fire, just not for the federal employee on the ground. We're usually the cheapest folks there. It is aggravating for almost everyone to be ordered to a dead fire and just sit there. And yup, there are some guys who would rather be on a dead fire than working, "pays the same." And most people I work with find that frustrating.
Working for the federal government is often extremely frustrating and unrewarding. I show up for work for the people in the office with me, not for some far off regional forester or administration. Maybe I'm lucky and have a really good group of folks around me, but we all want to appropriately manage the land around us.
Just my opinions, and maybe a few excuses too, thanks for the discussion.
