Outfitting on Public lands

[RidgeRunner76]

For a select few of us, there is no box. We'll figure it out. Never a problem, only solutions.

Take any monetary reward out of this equation for influencers and Outfitters and this problem doesn't exist. Solution.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I guess my $800 NR is not paying for a right to hunt public lands?

That is correct. As has been explained ad nauseam on this forum, our license from the state entrusted with wildlife management to allow us to hunt has absolutely no relationship to public lands, accessing public lands, recreating on public lands, or public lands mixed uses. The right to access and use public lands for whatever reason has NO relationship to a hunting license.

 

[Treeshark]

The right to access and use public lands for whatever reason has NO relationship to a hunting license.

(Except the obvious logical relationship)

 

[Straight Arrow]

obvious logical relationship

Which obviously is in a mind that does not understand the difference(s) between wildlife management and public lands management.
Read and learn ... or continue skewed logic ... your choice, your right.

 

[brymoore]

I might have agreed with the haters until my 2024 Idaho Moose tag. The first scouting trip I realized that my tag was too far in and a moose is too big. Maybe when I was 40, or even 50. But 62 year old me with a worn out spine, nope. I would lose the meat trying to get it out. I contracted with an outfitter. It hurt a little to lower my DIY only flag. It cost a fair bit of coin. Coin I did not have when I was 40, or even 50.

The problems I had on that hunt came with me, not the outfitter. He was not charging me for the land, he was not charging me for the game animal. He was charging me for goods and services to get me where I knew I wanted to be every day. He was charging me to have an experienced guide with me at all times. He was charging me to provide absolutely bomb-proof saddle stock, use of tack, potential field processing of a kill, meat care and hauling, and trophy prep. He fed me like a king, nursed me when I got sick, provided a heated tent and buttload of bucked, cured, and split firewood. On top of all that, he busted his butt to get me on a moose.

He is paying fees to both USFS and to IDFG, he is paying for employees, he is purchasing and caring for livestock, he is paying for both human and livestock food. Livestock costs include acquisition, vet bills, farriers, tack, certified hay and grains, etc. His franchise requires him to maintain the trails in their permit area. After about the second day I started to tally up all the things on the expense side of his ledger. I did not need a green visor to see I was getting a great value for the experience I was having.

In Idaho you are not going to have a sack full of choices for outfitters if you draw a premium tag. Outfitters pay for exclusive territories. Honestly, I lucked out in terms of having a quality outfitter. It is on us to know the outfitting situation for the tags we are applying to get. Consider the draw odds for a given special hunt might be so good because the outfitter for the zone may be substandard.

I was previously a never hire an outfitter guy but then I was invited on a last minute open spot by a buddy. I completely enjoyed the hunt. To me, it was more about the accommodations and horses than elk hunting knowledge. I keep thinking of doing another hunt more of a vacation idea. I learned a lot about the business model in our chats. Tag availability is a big issue for them. This one needed tags to sell hunts.

I’ve spoken to other outfitters who have given me similar business model stories. It’s a lot of hard work for a little money. I’ve had contact with other outfitters when hunting with no issues except a sheep outfitter. Long story but the guy was an SOB.

 

[Carnage2011]

I don’t see outfitters over exploiting anything here in R6&7.
What I see are outfitters taking few to no clients, in spite of having high demand for their services.

This is false. Outfitters are the reason that 150 extra tags were proposed in 704/705 a couple weeks ago. I don’t have a problem with public land outfitters as long as they aren’t screwing with the public land hunters. The outfitters that work backroom does to try and get more tags for their clients so they can profit off of it are bottom of the barrel.

 

[Treeshark]

Which obviously is in a mind that does not understand the difference(s) between wildlife management and public lands management.
Read and learn ... or continue skewed logic ... your choice, your right.

I’m just skating to where the puck is gonna be, my man.

 

[whatnot]

Might as well kick everyone off the public lands then, that use them to make money.
Land of many uses comes to mind.

Wyoming wilderness law says otherwise, which i guess is Wyoming right as far as game laws go, but, tgen its not land of "many uses, its resyricyrd so let the guides pay the going rate for locking up private land?

 

[MT Super Puncher]

I guess I'm torn on the issue. I own and have access to equipment and livestock for backcountry public land hunting, but quite honestly the pain in the butt factor of going in 15-20 miles, setting up camp, tending livestock, etc. is not worth it to me. In that regard, I'm fine with outfitters on public land for the deep wilderness trips. Selfishly, if something happens to livestock, I'd rather have it happen to their horses and not mine.

That said, I do think there is an overuse of outfitters on public land which has negatively impacted hunting opportunities in Montana. The outfitter lobbyists have way too much sway and I think are the real problem.

Only this year did I learn that in Canada, outfitters cannot pay landowners for hunting on their property. I think that's an interesting proposition, but the problem is Canada doesn't have the same history of property rights as the States and I think that would cause an issue in implementing something similar down here.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I’m just skating to where the puck is gonna be, my man.

I like your analogy ... particularly since you are on thin ice, my boy.