Opening Day and Long Range Shooting

[Deleted member 18333]

Here are a couple articles from last weeks Wy Wildlife TF meeting.

Opening Day Issues

Crowds, Flying Bullets Driving Wyoming Hunters Away From Opening Day | Cowboy State Daily

Former Wyoming Attorney General Pat Crank recalled three bullets zipping over him and his hunting partner as they were trying to close in on a cow elk during a recent hunting season’s opening.

cowboystatedaily.com

Long Range Shooting

2,000-Yard Wyoming Antelope Kill Rekindles Debate Over Ethical Hunting Shot Distance | Cowboy State Daily

Should shooting an antelope at 2,000 yards be considered fair chase? Just how far is too far for ethical hunting shots was the subject of a lively discussion before the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force on Friday.

cowboystatedaily.com

 

[Mallardsx2]

I foresee a magnification limit being introduced in the next couple of years.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I foresee a magnification limit being introduced in the next couple of years.

Really? What would the limit be? I would be more limited by wind reading skills than I would be a 9x scope @ 700 yards.

 

[old270hunter]

I foresee a magnification limit being introduced in the next couple of years.

Or restricting 6.5 man bun bros.

 

[Jwill]

I once encountered some guys setting up a tent and rifle to attempt a mile shot on an elk. I don't think the elk ever showed, but it was pretty disgusting nonetheless. Hard to rulemake some folks out of being complete jackasses though...

 

[JT88]

You can't legislate morality

 

[Deleted member 20812]

You can't legislate morality

Or intelligence. See husky thread for reference.

 

[peterk1234]

My hunting has always been with a bow. This will be my first year using a rifle as well. If I can't get within 300 yards of an animal then I'm quitting and will try again next year.

I've been shooting at 300 for practice. The other day I was dealing with 20 knot cross wind. Wow can can that bullet drift. Can't imagine taking a flyer at 600 yards on an. God knows where that bullet would end up.

 

[OriginalOscar]

You can't legislate morality

Fortunately we can and do! Moses gave us Ten to follow and our laws and society are based on.

Honor Your Father and Mother might fit. My dad and uncles taught me to stalk and fair chase ethic.

You Shall Not Covet definitely fits. These slobs who covet the animal above all else.

 

[JT88]

Fortunately we can and do! Moses gave us Ten to follow and our laws and society are based on.

Honor Your Father and Mother might fit. My dad and uncles taught me to stalk and fair chase ethic.

You Shall Not Covet definitely fits. These slobs who covet the animal above all else.

"It takes very little to govern good people. Very little. And bad people can't be governed at all. Or if they could I never heard of it." - Cormac McCarthy, No Country for Old Men

 

[thomas89]

Was pronghorn hunting the other day and having a heck of a time getting close enough with the winds gusting to 50+.

Came around a bend in the road and I shit you not there’s a guy and gal laid out prone next to a prius, head to toe in Sitka, who had just taken a shot at some pronghorn at 500+, and hit one in the hind quarter. His first words were “man, this wind is crazy!”. No shit Sherlock, good luck catching up to that group. Probably just hammered on and the took some Enduro and got back to it, ya know?

I was hitting a 12” steel plate at 500 all summer, but that day I wanted them within 150.

Just because one can, doesn’t mean one should.

 

[morley.tyler]

I was hunting w/ a work colleague in WY for antelope a few years back. He was not an experienced hunter, but a very experienced long-range shooter, and very good at ringing steel. We drove over a small rise and spotted a decent buck for him. I drove on down the other side, into a draw, dropped him off, and continued to drive on in hopes that the antelope would see me (the truck) continue and stay put. A short walk to a vantage point should have put my friend 300-400 yards away from the antelope. Easy peasy.
In my rearview, I watched my friend start his walk, but in the wrong direction. Assuming he was confused, I backed down the road and told him where the antelope was. He said he knew, but wanted to take a longer shot...
I told him to do whatever he was comfortable w/ but if he created a longer shot than required, he was gonna have a long walk back to Oregon...

 

[Ben Lamb]

Long range shooting, flock shooting, lack of knowing what's beyond your target, etc are all facets of hunting that we either agree to live with or we work to change.
Hunter education is the best tool to change this kind of behavior. The more I dig into things like @Big Fin's Outdoor Class, MPG/Ravalli County Fish & Wildlife Association's enhanced hunter ed, mandatory field days, the Master Hunter program, the more I'm up for it.

The rush to create new hunters for R3 purposes has led to a decline in the amount of layers needed to produce truly ethical hunters. We've waived hunter ed requirements for mentorships, we've eliminated the mandatory in-person field days, etc.

We allow the concentration of animals on private due to hunt season structure, etc and we get angry when people who have seen their success rates plummet take any opportunity to put meat in the pot rather than go home with unspent rounds.

You can legislate morality. Every country does so. Murder laws, theft, assault, etc all are legislated and all are morally important for the survival of the nations of the world. Yes, there will always be people who break the law, but that does not mean that we eliminate the rules & social more's necessary for civilization to keep moving forward. Laws mean that there are consequences for doing bad things. That's the entire concept of the American legal system - you are free to make bad decisions, but there will be consequences.

 

[Nameless Range]

There are threads upon threads about limiting technology, and I am one of the dead-horse-beaters. That said, I'll give the carcass another whack.


We are not necessarily destined to more LE permit areas, shorter seasons, etc. We could get creative about limiting technology. And we should. Create primitive areas. Longbow and recurve hunting only. Traditional muzzleloader and/or shotgun only with no optics. Etc.

Yeah I know, it will never happen. If only due to momentum, industry, and boys with their toys. But imagine what the future of hunting would be like if this were the case across the board - 10,20,50, years from now. We'd have better age classes, better hunters, more interesting hunts, and more respect and acceptance from the non-hunting public.

But nah, bad PR, shorter seasons, and less opportunity are better....

 

[BuzzH]

Long range shooting, flock shooting, lack of knowing what's beyond your target, etc are all facets of hunting that we either agree to live with or we work to change.
Hunter education is the best tool to change this kind of behavior. The more I dig into things like @Big Fin's Outdoor Class, MPG/Ravalli County Fish & Wildlife Association's enhanced hunter ed, mandatory field days, the Master Hunter program, the more I'm up for it.

The rush to create new hunters for R3 purposes has led to a decline in the amount of layers needed to produce truly ethical hunters. We've waived hunter ed requirements for mentorships, we've eliminated the mandatory in-person field days, etc.

We allow the concentration of animals on private due to hunt season structure, etc and we get angry when people who have seen their success rates plummet take any opportunity to put meat in the pot rather than go home with unspent rounds.

You can legislate morality. Every country does so. Murder laws, theft, assault, etc all are legislated and all are morally important for the survival of the nations of the world. Yes, there will always be people who break the law, but that does not mean that we eliminate the rules & social more's necessary for civilization to keep moving forward. Laws mean that there are consequences for doing bad things. That's the entire concept of the American legal system - you are free to make bad decisions, but there will be consequences.

I agree, but IMO, hunters ed needs to be an on-going effort. No more one and done and here's why.

A normal hunters ed class talks about firearm/archery safety. They talk about knowing your target and beyond. They talk about important laws and regulations. Those are all great.

They walk out the door with the certificate and then proceed to hunt with their family or buddies for their "advanced" hunters education. Many times picking up horrific habits and practices that may have been appropriate some time in the past, but are no longer acceptable or legal today.

I think deeper discussions about population dynamics, how you impact the herd as a hunter, challenges those animals face all year, how technology is increasing success, how all that impacts management decisions, what he have to do to ensure wildlife populations long term, etc. etc. all have to be part of the continuing hunter education process. I think the more education you give people, the more likely they are to come to similar and appropriate conclusions on their own.

It seems to me that people put an awful lot of importance in getting an animal killed over everything else and that's not healthy. The how has got to be an important component as well as how your decisions are impacting the animals we're hunting.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Some hunter’s education curriculums include familiarization with guns and archery tackle. Some go even further to include range time on those implements.

But the hip new classes are virtual. Here in NM it’s $34.95 all online. I’m confident the online students have more book knowledge than those born before a certain date who were never mandated to attend. Though that’s the extent of my confidence.

 

[Beignet]

Was pronghorn hunting the other day and having a heck of a time getting close enough with the winds gusting to 50+.

Came around a bend in the road and I shit you not there’s a guy and gal laid out prone next to a prius, head to toe in Sitka, who had just taken a shot at some pronghorn at 500+, and hit one in the hind quarter. His first words were “man, this wind is crazy!”. No shit Sherlock, good luck catching up to that group. Probably just hammered on and the took some Enduro and got back to it, ya know?

I was hitting a 12” steel plate at 500 all summer, but that day I wanted them within 150.

Just because one can, doesn’t mean one should.

This was my similar to my sole pronghorn experience, sans Prius. I did however see a gaggle of knuckleheads sitting in lawn chairs next to their truck using shooting sticks to lob rounds at who knows how far and wound antelope. Poor critters often don’t get the respect they deserve. Stalking them seemed like the most of the fun part of the experience for me.

Also had a an errant round hit the dirt not 10 yards away from me on that same trip, standing in the open and covered in orange. Pretty sour time all around.

 

[WVmike]

Fortunately we can and do! Moses gave us Ten to follow and our laws and society are based on.

Honor Your Father and Mother might fit. My dad and uncles taught me to stalk and fair chase ethic.

You Shall Not Covet definitely fits. These slobs who covet the animal above all else.

Society has changed so much in just the past few years between what everyone's beliefs are to what is right and what is wrong. We all have a guide, being if your Christian the bible but whatever religion you believe has their guide as well. The more and more we move away from that guide, well here we are today in the situation we are now. Money, greed and recognition are front and center in anything anymore. How could anyone with any desire to hunt and enjoy the outdoors shoot at any animal for that matter with a .50 cal and at that range too? Probably be the first person to post pictures on social media and show boat about everything they do, just like when an NFL receiver scores a touchdown. Barry Sanders scored many touchdowns, probably would have scored more had he been on a good team, but every time he scored he handed the ball to the ref and acted like he had done it before. Standards have changed and it will keep getting worse the further we stray from our guide that was given to us a long time ago. I'm not a bible thumper by any means but it's the way I see it.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I agree, but IMO, hunters ed needs to be an on-going effort. No more one and done and here's why.

A normal hunters ed class talks about firearm/archery safety. They talk about knowing your target and beyond. They talk about important laws and regulations. Those are all great.

They walk out the door with the certificate and then proceed to hunt with their family or buddies for their "advanced" hunters education. Many times picking up horrific habits and practices that may have been appropriate some time in the past, but are no longer acceptable or legal today.

I think deeper discussions about population dynamics, how you impact the herd as a hunter, challenges those animals face all year, how technology is increasing success, how all that impacts management decisions, what he have to do to ensure wildlife populations long term, etc. etc. all have to be part of the continuing hunter education process. I think the more education you give people, the more likely they are to come to similar and appropriate conclusions on their own.

It seems to me that people put an awful lot of importance in getting an animal killed over everything else and that's not healthy. The how has got to be an important component as well as how your decisions are impacting the animals we're hunting.

Well said. I'm curious what some of the Hunter Ed instructors on HT think?

 

[TheTone]

I agree, but IMO, hunters ed needs to be an on-going effort. No more one and done and here's why.

A normal hunters ed class talks about firearm/archery safety. They talk about knowing your target and beyond. They talk about important laws and regulations. Those are all great.

They walk out the door with the certificate and then proceed to hunt with their family or buddies for their "advanced" hunters education. Many times picking up horrific habits and practices that may have been appropriate some time in the past, but are no longer acceptable or legal today.

I think deeper discussions about population dynamics, how you impact the herd as a hunter, challenges those animals face all year, how technology is increasing success, how all that impacts management decisions, what he have to do to ensure wildlife populations long term, etc. etc. all have to be part of the continuing hunter education process. I think the more education you give people, the more likely they are to come to similar and appropriate conclusions on their own.

It seems to me that people put an awful lot of importance in getting an animal killed over everything else and that's not healthy. The how has got to be an important component as well as how your decisions are impacting the animals we're hunting.

Agreed. Idaho teaches some of that but it goes way over a 9-12 year old kids head. Maybe require a refresher at age 20-21?

At some point people have to understand that increased lethality has consequences on opportunities