Northern Yellowstone Elk herd at highest levels in 10 years

[ecb]

Wolves slacking again, what excuses will the outfitters have now?

http://https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/environment/northern-yellowstone-elk-herd-at-highest-level-in-more-than/article_44b86caf-db36-57b4-9624-4fad1d19490c.html

 

[pdq_wizzard]

let me fix the link for you.

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/environment/northern-yellowstone-elk-herd-at-highest-level-in-more-than/article_44b86caf-db36-57b4-9624-4fad1d19490c.html

also.

Karen Loveless, a biologist with FWP, said the significant jump likely means they missed counting some elk last year, but they still believe the population is healthy and growing. It’s the fourth consecutive year that the number has increased.

 

[Dr. Vette]

"Northern Yellowstone Elk herd at highest levels in 10 years "

That doesn't take much. Having hunted there in 2007 and 2009, and seen photos of what it looked like prior to the wolves, it had nowhere to go but up.

 

[shoots-straight]

Many Wolf nuts claimed the Elk would be extinct by now. The herd is past the objective for the area now. Time to kill them back again. Oh I mean time for the Wolves to kill them off again.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

"Northern Yellowstone Elk herd at highest levels in 10 years "

That doesn't take much. Having hunted there in 2007 and 2009, and seen photos of what it looked like prior to the wolves, it had nowhere to go but up.

That’s what happens when you shoot the piss out of cows on the winter range year after year, even though the calf recruitment was in the toilet for 10 years before that.

 

[belly-deep]

So we’re trusting MT FWP count numbers again?

 

[BuzzH]

So we’re trusting MT FWP count numbers again?

I don't trust anything the MTFWP does...they burned that bridge with me years ago.

 

[MTGomer]

Like Eastern Montana mule deer, they've teetered back off the brink, so the logical conclusion is to kill a bunch of females. OPEN A SHOULDER SEASON!!! How predictable.

Karen is a good person and dedicated biologist. Must be tough for her to bite the bullet and parrot FWP's bullshit talking points to peddle more licenses for the 'but muhhhh opportunity!' crowd, especially when the brucellosis nonsense is thrown into the mix.

 

[BuzzH]

It does a biologist no good to be dedicated in Montana...what changes can they make? Guys like Mike Thompson, John Vore, etc. will either shut them down or fire them if they don't comply to the "kill it all, maximize opportunity" mentality.

It doesn't take long for the MT biologists to realize its just a paycheck...and frankly, that's all it is. They are absolutely meaningless to management, another cold reality in the MTFWP world of biology.

I cant imagine working for a worse State game management agency, as a biologist, than the Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks...has to be hell on earth.

 

[375H&H]

I cant imagine working for a worse State game management agency, as a biologist, than the Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks...has to be hell on earth.

Not trying to spark debate but for perspectives sake I think Washington State is farrrrrrr worse than Montana and possibly California is as well.

 

[BuzzH]

Not trying to spark debate but for perspectives sake I think Washington State is farrrrrrr worse than Montana and possibly California is as well.

From a professional standpoint? Doubtful.

Biologists are not allowed to function in Montana.

 

[Lone Elk]

Not trying to spark debate but for perspectives sake I think Washington State is farrrrrrr worse than Montana and possibly California is as well.

and don't be afraid to mention Wisconsin in the mix, even though its east. We have a 'problem' with CWD here, so lets just annihilate all the deer so they don't catch it.......????!!

 

[Irrelevant]

From a professional standpoint? Doubtful.

Biologists are not allowed to function in Montana.

Yes and no. Try being a fisheries biologist in a state that loves it's commercial fishery, keep authorizing Atlantic salmon net pens (until recently), has a sovereign nation claiming half or more of all the fish, the fastest growing population in the historically densest salmon habitat, and a state agency that pushes for more recreational opportunity. That's an extremely shitty position to be in. Welcome to Washington. Oh and almost all of the elk hunting in the eastern half of the state is OTC true spike only (ludicrous).

 

[Irrelevant]

and don't be afraid to mention Wisconsin in the mix, even though its east. We have a 'problem' with CWD here, so lets just annihilate all the deer so they don't catch it.......????!!

There is no cure for CWD and it is proven to be a density depend disease. Extreme population reduction is really the only possible solution to manage the spread.

 

[PaulRevere]

"We got kill em' all to save em!"

Definitely surprised (especially as a brand new hunter) that FWP treats the elk like vermin. Objective numbers are a joke. Killing elk in January isn't right. And I agree with Buzz that FWP biologists are a crock...in theory they should be the biggest advocate for elk and it seems all they want to do is slaughter!

 

[Jon Boy]

Numbers are high but bull to cow ratios still seem piss poor in my observations. That mostly coming from every legal bull being executed by certain outfitters on horse back. Also, just my observations. I have no way to scientifically support this so please but have spent a fair amount of time in the basin to observe this.

 

[BuzzH]

Numbers are high but bull to cow ratios still seem piss poor in my observations. That mostly coming from every legal bull being executed by certain outfitters on horse back. Also, just my observations. I have no way to scientifically support this so please but have spent a fair amount of time in the basin to observe this.

Its true that bull to cow ratio's suck. I pointed out to Mike Thompson, from HIS data, that they were killing nearly 100% of the available bulls each year in the area I hunt and that bull to cow ratio's were in the tank. I specifically asked if he thought that was a problem, "Nope, as long as the total number of elk is within objective, we don't care what the bull to cow ratio's are or what percentage of the bulls we kill every year"...and I was again reminded that their attitude surveys showed that Montana hunters prefer opportunity over all else.

Sad really.

 

[Lawnboy]

Biologists are not allowed to function in Montana.

I find this to be a true statement. I'm actually impressed by Karen the biologist in the Livingston area. She seems practical and tries her best. I've now been to multiple meetings where she has to face the outfitter posse from up there. She is treated like crap. She knows all the factors in play up there which are Hunters, wolves, bears, cats etc... She isn't the last word unfortunately and more often the biologist recommendation is thrown to the way side by the uppers. I'm impressed she at least admitted that the inflated number is likely due to missing some last year. Only a fool would believe a population bounce back of nearly double in a year. Carry on

 

[The Hedgehog]

One of the last FWP meetings I went to, Karen got absolutely hammered by everybody. Topic was elk in 313, primarily going over her recommendation to put the unit on limited quota.

Dealing with the wing-nut hunters, outfitters, landowners, wolf huggers, and the FWP leadership has got to be a tough. I told her after her presentation, she looked like she need a belt of whiskey.

I don't go to those meetings anymore - they're useless.

 

[8andcounting]

So in a unit like 313 that's close to the park , is there a ton of outfitters and are they killing every rag horn too?