New Mexico Rounding

[npaden]

Wow. I remember reading about this earlier, but until I was actually putting in the applications I didn't realize how much this was going to affect the units I apply for.

It seemed to affect pronghorn the most. There were zero youth hunts that I could apply my son for due to the rounding. Even for non youth tags there were a LOT of pronghorn hunt codes that had 10 or less and therefore the odds of drawing were zero.

There were a few other youth tags that I couldn't apply for him on other species as well.

I'm curious if they will change up some of the application process like they did with Bighorn Sheep so that nonresidents actually have a better chance than zero at drawing some of these tags.

I got a couple of the hunt codes out of order for my son. Not sure I'm going to waste an application fee to fix them or not.

The worst was on Oryx and I'm pretty sure than any on-range Oryx hunt he draws would be great.

Oh well, just thought I would whine. On first glance they have quite a few youth hunts but looking into it, there are only a very few that are eligible for nonresidents.

 

[Trial153]

with hope they will look at ways to mitigate this if the totals arent reflecting their intent or objective.

 

[Bluffgruff]

Best/simplest/easiest solution would be to go back to the old system and round up any hunt with 0.5 tags for nonresidents to a whole tag. Failing that, they should designate exactly 10% of the tags for a species to non-resident nonguided and declare them nonresident-only tags. Do away with outfitter pool altogether. That pool is being abused as it is currently written with "minimum necessary guided-only" hunts where they "guide" you for 2 days and then you can hunt on your own. I might change my mind about nonresident non-guided if I ever move to NM, but I'd still want to do away with the guided pool.

 

[Trial153]

NM would a mecia without the outfitter and LO welfare tags

 

[AggieHunter]

I believe you can still apply for youth hunts because I did and the unit had 45 tags for the season

 

[ImBillT]

The difference is huge. Any weapon pronghorn tags for NRs have been cut in half. Outfitters lost around 1/3. Not only did a lot of hunt codes loose their only NR tag, but quite a few went from 2 to 1, or 3 to 2 etc. There are also tag numbers with a possible “extra” that disappears when more tags are added. For example, at 25 tags, 21 go to residents, 2 to outfitters, 1 to non-residents, and the 25th tag goes to whichever application comes up first between NRs and outfitters giving NRs a chance at two tags. However, at 30 tags, outfitters are ensured 3 and NRs are back down to 1.

Two things about the new system really irritate me.
A) NM is not being particularly transparent about the tag cut. I’m not saying they’re intentionally hiding it, but when the percentages stay the same, but the rules guarantee that NRs WILL NOT get the full 6% it’s not obvious to everyone what happened. On the other hand, if they just dropped it to 5% it would be quite plain to everyone.
B) The folks who pushed for this are getting absolutely nothing meaningful out of it. As far as I can tell, there will not be even one single additional tag issued to a resident that would not have been issued under the old system. I haven’t seen any hunt codes for any weapon deer, elk or pronghorn with different tag numbers than last year, but I could have missed it. If not, the new system doesn’t increase resident opportunity one iota. Furthermore, it won’t noticeably enhance the experience or herds either. Under the old system, at most, one tag per hunt code more than published would be issued. I doubt there are any hunts where cutting from 11 hunters to 10 is going to make a difference, let alone 131 to 130. How many more animals per unit were really getting harvested by that one extra NR?

NM could have simply adjusted the published tag numbers, on a few hunt codes, slightly to prevent the old rounding system from resulting in less than 84% of issued tags from going to residents and it would have fixed everything without the convoluted mess they created.

Quite a few hunt codes that I used to apply for no longer have a tag. I already have an elk tag and an AZ license. I haven’t been able to work much in the 6-7 days due to weather, covid-19 could potentially put a pretty big damper on work in the near future since I cannot work from home. I’m considering letting NM slide for this year...I’ll decide at the last minute tomorrow.

 

[npaden]

I believe you can still apply for youth hunts because I did and the unit had 45 tags for the season

For pronghorn? I didn't see any youth rifle hunts with more than 10 tags. Most only had 5.

 

[AggieHunter]

Unit 56 shows 50 tags for the youth only hunt

 

[npaden]

Unit 56 shows 50 tags for the youth only hunt

Just counted them up. There are 27 Youth Only - Any Weapon hunt codes. 3 of those have a large enough quota that a nonresident youth could actually draw one.

 

[ImBillT]

Just counted them up. There are 27 Youth Only - Any Weapon hunt codes. 3 of those have a large enough quota that a nonresident youth could actually draw one.

And with every NR youth applying for those, odds my be better in the regular hunts.

Are NRs allowed to draw F-IM pronghorn? That would bump it to 7.

 

[npaden]

I'm not sure. I know nonresidents can't apply for cow elk tags.

 

[AggieHunter]

And with every NR youth applying for those, odds my be better in the regular hunts.

Are NRs allowed to draw F-IM pronghorn? That would bump it to 7.

I agree I was lucky enough to draw a youth pronghorn hunt last year and decided to try my luck again

 

[prhunter]

The question is what is the minimum number tags needed in a specific hunt code for non res to get at least one tag awarded?

 

[.270]

The question is what is the minimum number tags needed in a specific hunt code for non res to get at least one tag awarded?

I called NM game and fish and asked them the same question. They told me 15 was the minimum number of tags for a non res to get one. But 6 percent of 15 is .9 while 6 percent of 17 is 1.02. I thought 17 tags was the minimum with the new rule change would equal one non res tag.

 

[prhunter]

I called NM game and fish and asked them the same question. They told me 15 was the minimum number of tags for a non res to get one. But 6 percent of 15 is .9 while 6 percent of 17 is 1.02. I thought 17 tags was the minimum with the new rule change would equal one non res tag.

Could it be that NM will round off the .9?

 

[ImBillT]

Mathematically the minimum is 13. Realistically it’s 15 unless there is a hunt code with 13 tags somewhere.

The method is that you multiply published tags by .84 for residents, always round up for residents even it comes out to .01. Then multiply by .1 for outfitter tags and .06 for NR tags. Always round NRs and outfitters down. If a tag remains unaccounted for in the published total, it goes to the NR or O with the highest decimal value after the whole number. In the case that both are tied at .5 it goes to whichever app gets drawn next.

For 10 tags
10x.84=8.4—9 tags for residents
10x.1=1—1 tag for outfitters
10x.06=.6—0 tags for NRs
9+1=10 no tags are unaccounted for. NRs receive no tag. Under the old system, .6 would round up, the NR pool would receive 1 tag, and the total number of tags issued would be 11.

For 13 tags
13x.84= 10.92—11 tags for residents
13x.1=1.3—1 tag for outfitters
13x.06=.78—0 tags for NRs
11+1=12 which means that one tag remains which does not belong to residents. It goes to the outfitter or NR pool depending on which one had the highest decimal portion. .78>.3 so the NR pool gets the the tag. Under the old system, this would not change.

For 25 tags
25x.84=21—-21 tags for residents
25x.1=2.5—2 tags for outfitters
25x.06=1.5—1 tag for NRs

21+2+1= 24, so one tag that does not belong to residents remains. It does not go into the NR or O pool. Instead it becomes a wildcard and goes to either the 3rd O application or 2nd NR application to come up, whichever is first. Under the old system, both the NR and O would round up from .5 to the next whole number and a total of 26 tags would be issued.

30 tags
30X.84=25.2—26 tags for residents
30x.1=3—- 3 tags for outfitters
30x.06=1.8— 1 tag for NRs

26+3+1= 30. No tags are unaccounted for. At 30 tags NRs have no chance at a second tag, which is stupid, since they have a pretty good chance at a second tag(because NR apps vastly outnumber O apps) at 25 listed tags. but that’s also stupid that the outfitters and NRs could get the same number of tags...not that I’m complaining. Under the old system, 1.8 would round up, NRs would get two tags, and a the total number of tags issued would be 31.

 

[hank4elk]

NM screwed up cutting NR tags and giving outfitters a welfare pool. Should be 10% NR & maybe 5% for the poor starving outfitters.
But the residents are special and deserve all the tags,free.....and they will get what they deserve. LOL
Since moving here I get to apply and sometimes draw. But the way folks think here is still something to get used to. I never learned to not use logic.

 

[gburk]

The 84/6/10 split would require a lot to change but the rounding is something the commission can undo. I just emailed them and encourage others to do the same. Most of the hunts I applied for had a significant drop in NR tags, and as someone else noted previously, at some threshold of probability the raffle ticket is no longer worth the cost.

Meet the Commissioner - New Mexico Department of Game & Fish

Tirzio Lopez Vice-Chair District 3: San Juan, McKinley, Cibola, Valencia, Sandoval, Los Alamos and Rio Arriba counties; Attention: Tirzio Lopez 1 Wildlife Way, Santa Fe, NM 87507 [email protected] Tirzio Lopez currently works for the United States Government as a security professional...

www.wildlife.state.nm.us

I think there's a decent case to be made that the negative impact of a 25 or 30 tag hunt cutting NR tags from 2 to 1 (or 10 tag hunt going from 1 to 0) is much greater than whatever slight perceived reduction in hunter crowding that the 11th or 26th hunter would have caused. End result is likely to be fewer NR applications in the long run for a barely noticeable benefit to residents. It's not their fault the statute is ambiguous but the net outcome of this new interpretation is negative. That's my story, anyways.

 

[ImBillT]

^^^ I agree completely. It achieved nothing for residents, but hurt NRs and cost NMGF tons of money.

 

[hank4elk]

The rounding is bogus amaginary number to appease the entitled residents.
If one tag would throw the balance of a herd,there should be no tags in that unit for that animal for a while...
Agree on the 30 or so low take units & animal. That is just the way it is.
Try and get a Tule elk tag to fill that elk slam......