Tom- What kind of image/message do game farms send to the non-hunting public when they are voting on whether or not we keep the priviledge of hunting? It's all to easy to make the 'Hunter Joe six pack' image fit with the proliferation of game farms. Do you feel these farms should have to remove all the wild game from the area before they start the farm? If not, why should they get free stock from the state? The ranch I work on sells hunts for $12K for a bull, but some of those animals may live the ranch. Well managed lands can serve as supplies of healthy animals to the surrounding, often public, lands.
MT's I-143 under attack
- Thread starter BuzzH
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
Tom, you just dont get it.
But, thats OK, you dont have to, because the MAJORITY in MT did get it. You'll never agree with a thousand good reasons, because its a direct conflict with how you "hunt" in Texas. I dont blame you for that, but things are different in MT, and we hate game farms and the people who "hunt" them.
I'll tell you whats half-assed, and thats having to pay for a lease to have any kind of "hunting", just like that found in Texas. If I had to resort to that, I'd quit and join PETA.
But, thats OK, you dont have to, because the MAJORITY in MT did get it. You'll never agree with a thousand good reasons, because its a direct conflict with how you "hunt" in Texas. I dont blame you for that, but things are different in MT, and we hate game farms and the people who "hunt" them.
I'll tell you whats half-assed, and thats having to pay for a lease to have any kind of "hunting", just like that found in Texas. If I had to resort to that, I'd quit and join PETA.
Tom
New member
tsk, tsk, tsk, one prejudiced comment after another.
One pointer, "what's the image..." you ask, my quick answer the image/message is that people kill animals in the great outdoors, (unless maybe some anti-hunters have changed the facts for you) with guns and bows, not just in a slaughter house without guns and bows.
"do they need to remove all the wild animals?" No, they don't in Texas and its working just fine here. "If not, why should they get some "free"", they're not free, the state collects fees for hunters here who hunt them. Da, maybe Montana should have done that. I've said that a lot.
One pointer, does the ranch you work for have a web page or broshure on their hunts?
You can always count on Greenhorn for some schitt comments and pictures of great elk and deer. You did it again, I guess I could spend $12,500 at a "game farm" if I got one scoring over 390, eh? I'm not crying, I'm not making you pay for anything, and I know you voted the way you did. I tried to inform you guys of other ways of doing things before the vote when we were discussing it at huntinfo.com a few years back and I'm free to discuss it now.
Buzz, I can't believe you said there's conditions under which you would join PETA. That's even more confusing and erroneous than your other arguments.
We got all kinds of hunting here, you guys shouldn't forget that. We even have wilderness areas here and our state record archery deer is from a $50 over the counter, free application, public hunt, where you have to walk in. Later.
One pointer, "what's the image..." you ask, my quick answer the image/message is that people kill animals in the great outdoors, (unless maybe some anti-hunters have changed the facts for you) with guns and bows, not just in a slaughter house without guns and bows.
"do they need to remove all the wild animals?" No, they don't in Texas and its working just fine here. "If not, why should they get some "free"", they're not free, the state collects fees for hunters here who hunt them. Da, maybe Montana should have done that. I've said that a lot.
One pointer, does the ranch you work for have a web page or broshure on their hunts?
You can always count on Greenhorn for some schitt comments and pictures of great elk and deer. You did it again, I guess I could spend $12,500 at a "game farm" if I got one scoring over 390, eh? I'm not crying, I'm not making you pay for anything, and I know you voted the way you did. I tried to inform you guys of other ways of doing things before the vote when we were discussing it at huntinfo.com a few years back and I'm free to discuss it now.
Buzz, I can't believe you said there's conditions under which you would join PETA. That's even more confusing and erroneous than your other arguments.
We got all kinds of hunting here, you guys shouldn't forget that. We even have wilderness areas here and our state record archery deer is from a $50 over the counter, free application, public hunt, where you have to walk in. Later.
Tom- Here's some info. Contact them and they'll send you a brochure.
Deseret Land and Livestock
I don't believe the image that game farms send to the voting, but non-hunting public is what hunters should strive for.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-28-2003 08:08: Message edited by: 1_pointer ]</font>
Deseret Land and Livestock
I don't believe the image that game farms send to the voting, but non-hunting public is what hunters should strive for.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-28-2003 08:08: Message edited by: 1_pointer ]</font>
BuzzH
Well-known member
Tom, I think I'd do alright as a PETA member until they dug into my past...
I bet this picture would get me booted for sure.
I bet this picture would get me booted for sure.
deja vu all over again?
Tom`s same lame ass, the democrats did it, I do it so its ok, Texas is the best so its ok, reasoning. Give it up boys, ya won`t change his mind because he has no idea what a real hunt is all about.
And Tom give me a break, WILDERNESS in Texas, I laugh at you, Texans might call it a wilderness but come on up and hunt a real wilderness and I will bet your fat texas ass wouldn`t make it two miles in the Bob Marshell!
Tom`s same lame ass, the democrats did it, I do it so its ok, Texas is the best so its ok, reasoning. Give it up boys, ya won`t change his mind because he has no idea what a real hunt is all about.
And Tom give me a break, WILDERNESS in Texas, I laugh at you, Texans might call it a wilderness but come on up and hunt a real wilderness and I will bet your fat texas ass wouldn`t make it two miles in the Bob Marshell!
Tom said:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"do they need to remove all the wild animals?" No, they don't in Texas and its working just fine here. "If not, why should they get some "free"", they're not free, the state collects fees for hunters here who hunt them. Da, maybe Montana should have done that. I've said that a lot.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Elk and mule deer migrate from season to season. You can't just put a high fence enclosure right in the middle of a migration route and not expect any problems. Just because something works in Texas, doesn't mean it will work anywhere. Yes, the state collects fees from hunters, but any wild elk and deer enclosed by a fence is then only available to those willing to spend thousands of dollars to hunt. At least without the fence there is a chance of that animal moving to public land, where those of us who don't have that kind of money to spend can have a crack at it. Putting up high fences and charging to hunt the state's animals will turn hunting in to a rich man's sport even more than is already happening.
Hey Tom, when you get done fighting I-143, why don't you come to CO and fight our trapping ban. It passed by a 51%-49% margin too.
Oak
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-28-2003 08:30: Message edited by: Colorado Oak ]</font>
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"do they need to remove all the wild animals?" No, they don't in Texas and its working just fine here. "If not, why should they get some "free"", they're not free, the state collects fees for hunters here who hunt them. Da, maybe Montana should have done that. I've said that a lot.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Elk and mule deer migrate from season to season. You can't just put a high fence enclosure right in the middle of a migration route and not expect any problems. Just because something works in Texas, doesn't mean it will work anywhere. Yes, the state collects fees from hunters, but any wild elk and deer enclosed by a fence is then only available to those willing to spend thousands of dollars to hunt. At least without the fence there is a chance of that animal moving to public land, where those of us who don't have that kind of money to spend can have a crack at it. Putting up high fences and charging to hunt the state's animals will turn hunting in to a rich man's sport even more than is already happening.
Hey Tom, when you get done fighting I-143, why don't you come to CO and fight our trapping ban. It passed by a 51%-49% margin too.
Oak
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-28-2003 08:30: Message edited by: Colorado Oak ]</font>
Tom
New member
Buzz, the trapper/hunter, converted to PETA, right. ha ha Nice picture.
Hey 280, you're back. Deja vu is right, except this new bill, it seems like it has merit to me, but I'm not a Montana voter like you, so its up to you Montana people.
Did you see my bear picture this year? I hunted the Gila wilderness/national forest to get him, would that count as a real hunt to you? Did you see my whitetail, would that count? Did you see my javelinas? I even got a free ranging feral goat. Texas has a million hunters annually, Montana has 200,000, all 1.2 million are real.
If a bear was standing 150 yards in front of you with your 280, would he die any more "fair" if he was in the Bob Marshall than if he was on the Red, White, & Blue Velvet, or whatever that ranch is you're near? That's my point, when we hunt and kill them, its not fair, get over that, its hunting. Its not sport, its hunting, we aim to kill and eat them. Its different than sport and its not fair, its hunting.
I hope they keep the migration routes open, that is certainly a good idea.
So, Oak, did you vote for the trapping ban or against it?
Hey 280, you're back. Deja vu is right, except this new bill, it seems like it has merit to me, but I'm not a Montana voter like you, so its up to you Montana people.
Did you see my bear picture this year? I hunted the Gila wilderness/national forest to get him, would that count as a real hunt to you? Did you see my whitetail, would that count? Did you see my javelinas? I even got a free ranging feral goat. Texas has a million hunters annually, Montana has 200,000, all 1.2 million are real.
If a bear was standing 150 yards in front of you with your 280, would he die any more "fair" if he was in the Bob Marshall than if he was on the Red, White, & Blue Velvet, or whatever that ranch is you're near? That's my point, when we hunt and kill them, its not fair, get over that, its hunting. Its not sport, its hunting, we aim to kill and eat them. Its different than sport and its not fair, its hunting.
I hope they keep the migration routes open, that is certainly a good idea.
So, Oak, did you vote for the trapping ban or against it?
Point Creep
Well-known member
Tomism of the day: "I even got a free ranging feral goat."
That's funny. Now I have an excuse to go home and shoot my cat. I want to be able to say, "I even got a home ranging feral cat."
That's funny. Now I have an excuse to go home and shoot my cat. I want to be able to say, "I even got a home ranging feral cat."
Colorado Ranch
2000 Acres
Located in Northern Colorado surrounded in quakes and pines with private fishing pond. Excellent food and lodging, Hunters fly into Laramie Wyoming.
Utah Ranch
1000 Acres
Located in Central Utah nestled in rolling hills of tall oak and pines with excellent food and lodging. All hunters fly into Salt Lake City, Utah.
Extreme Genetics is a privately owned elk herd within high fences to ensure best in management of monster bull elk. It is a fantastic hunt for trophy hunters, corporation groups, youth hunters and the handicap hunter. If you are tired of all the hassles of today's elk hunts then Extreme Genetics is the hunt for you.
yup, 2000 acers and 1000 acers I could cover that in a matter of a few hours
$2500 Books Your Hunt Dates
3 Days Hunting - Food - Lodging
Transportation and Trophy Care
Guaranteed To See 6X6 Bulls!
Trophy Fees
Management Hunt
$1,400.00
Spike Bull Up To 5X6 260 Class
Monster Bull Hunt
$5,000.00
6X6 In The 260-340 Class
Extreme Bull Hunt
$7,000.00
Big Bulls Scoring 340-390
(Note: Bulls Scoring Over 390 pts Is An Additional $5,500.00)
What a crock of shit!!!!!
All these shooting farms should be burned to the friggin ground, and the cheese dicks that started them should be sent to IRAQ.
2000 Acres
Located in Northern Colorado surrounded in quakes and pines with private fishing pond. Excellent food and lodging, Hunters fly into Laramie Wyoming.
Utah Ranch
1000 Acres
Located in Central Utah nestled in rolling hills of tall oak and pines with excellent food and lodging. All hunters fly into Salt Lake City, Utah.
Extreme Genetics is a privately owned elk herd within high fences to ensure best in management of monster bull elk. It is a fantastic hunt for trophy hunters, corporation groups, youth hunters and the handicap hunter. If you are tired of all the hassles of today's elk hunts then Extreme Genetics is the hunt for you.
yup, 2000 acers and 1000 acers I could cover that in a matter of a few hours
$2500 Books Your Hunt Dates
3 Days Hunting - Food - Lodging
Transportation and Trophy Care
Guaranteed To See 6X6 Bulls!
Trophy Fees
Management Hunt
$1,400.00
Spike Bull Up To 5X6 260 Class
Monster Bull Hunt
$5,000.00
6X6 In The 260-340 Class
Extreme Bull Hunt
$7,000.00
Big Bulls Scoring 340-390
(Note: Bulls Scoring Over 390 pts Is An Additional $5,500.00)
What a crock of shit!!!!!
All these shooting farms should be burned to the friggin ground, and the cheese dicks that started them should be sent to IRAQ.
GilaMonster
New member
Hmmm, interesting thread to say the least guys. Seems that most of you have made up your minds about this sissue and that's that. Tom has made some good points and is attempting to get some of you to think instead of just bashing. Sounds reasonable to me. Greenhorn, I really thought you were at least a little more intelegent until I read some of these posts. Comparing a free ranging Feral to a house cat. That's actually almost too funny to be commented on except that you seem to really be that ignorant. Fact, not a bash. Obviousely, you have never hunted a free ranging feral goat, so that makes you an authority on it.. Right? So, you guys don't want any of those "Pussy Elk" from Texas huh. Hey, if you actually knew anything instead of trying to convince each other you did, you would know that all of those elk are from the Jackson Hole herd, reguardless of where they are. No difference guys. None whatsoever, except that many have been selectively bred. Big deal. So, you boys have watched the liberal press' opinions and lopsided views about game ranches, and they were able to brainwash you just like all of the liberal sheep in this country, that there is no sport in it. Yea, there are those types of places with tiny enclosures and it's not sport, but to assume all are that way, would be not be entirely fair. They, in fact, are not. Now, I can understand your position on where you prefer to hunt, and I think it's great that you feel that way, but to take the opportunity from someone else th hunt anywhere, anytime, makes you not better than the non-hunters that are attempting to stop you from doing what you enjoy. You are no better than they are in my opinion. We have all asked the question; Why would anyone try to stop me from hunting when it doesn't even affect them? You are doing the same thing boys. You're fueling the fire for the nonhunters. So try to set regulations on specific minimum sizes for pens, or whatever, but to fight against any kind of hunting, makes you no better than the members of the anti-hunting lobby. I see nowhere where Tom attacked any one of you, but the same respect was never given. This looked to start as a good debate, until you boys crossed the line. Poor upbringing I suppose.
gila, you know not what you talk about,
"Why would anyone try to stop me from hunting when it doesn't even affect them?" Gila.................see you know nothing, it effects me because here in Montana sportsmen license dollars where going to adminstration costs of these game farms, when the money should and could have been going to wild game mangement,,,but this is all old news
Looks like a high fence in the background
,http://angelfire.com/nm2/gilamonster/indexII.html
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-28-2003 11:28: Message edited by: 280 ]</font>
"Why would anyone try to stop me from hunting when it doesn't even affect them?" Gila.................see you know nothing, it effects me because here in Montana sportsmen license dollars where going to adminstration costs of these game farms, when the money should and could have been going to wild game mangement,,,but this is all old news
Looks like a high fence in the background
,http://angelfire.com/nm2/gilamonster/indexII.html
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-28-2003 11:28: Message edited by: 280 ]</font>
GilaMonster
New member
I don't know what I'm talking about? That's not exactly true. I know exactly what the pros and cons are on this issue. I also know that you "boys" are overexagerating this issue and voicing without thinking. I also think the bashing of other hunters is uncalled for. We have some serious battles ahead of us. All of us face this everyday, and the non-hunting group, like any enemy knows that the best way to win a war is to create problems within the ranks of their opponent. This entire anti-game ranch hoax was first started by the liberal press to make hunters look bad to everyone including other hunters. You and those other boys took the bait, now spit it out. We may see the day (I hope not) when none of us will be able to hunt anywhere. You are not an asset in this war at this time, in my opinion.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I also think the bashing of other hunters is uncalled for <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
umm I didn't see where any body bashed another hunter
I guess it would all be in what you consider a hunter.
peckerheads that think a 1000, or 2000 acer pen is hunting deserve whatever "bashing" they get.
umm I didn't see where any body bashed another hunter
I guess it would all be in what you consider a hunter.
peckerheads that think a 1000, or 2000 acer pen is hunting deserve whatever "bashing" they get.
tmsander
New member
Gila... you think the anti-canned hunt movement was started by the... oh my God... 'liberal press'? Got any other good conspiracy theories?
The movement in Montana was initiated and run through by sportsman. These sportsman decided to define what hunting ought to be and what it would be known as in Montana. They did it before someone did it for them. You don't agree with how Montanan's define hunting for themselves and their state, hunt somewhere else.
Now, a couple years later, its coming up in Colorado. The difference is that in Colorado it was started by the Fund for Animals. The anit-hunters never had a chance at Montana hunters. But they will certainly take shots at Colorado hunters.
I also agree with Tom's arguments against Buzz's (or was it Greenhorns?) list of reasons to ban the hunts. The reasons stated are all mitigatable, addressable by process change, or non-valid.
The movement in Montana was initiated and run through by sportsman. These sportsman decided to define what hunting ought to be and what it would be known as in Montana. They did it before someone did it for them. You don't agree with how Montanan's define hunting for themselves and their state, hunt somewhere else.
Now, a couple years later, its coming up in Colorado. The difference is that in Colorado it was started by the Fund for Animals. The anit-hunters never had a chance at Montana hunters. But they will certainly take shots at Colorado hunters.
I also agree with Tom's arguments against Buzz's (or was it Greenhorns?) list of reasons to ban the hunts. The reasons stated are all mitigatable, addressable by process change, or non-valid.
Tom
New member
One of the facts I gave addresses the funding question. The state that spends wildlife dollars managing wildlife ranches (game farms to anti-s) needs to collect wildlife dollars from those that use those ranches. I say its a fact because it is obviously a way to deal with the finances and that's the way I've seen it done here.
Oak, I just wondered if you were as anti as the people who want to put those legally liscensed "game farms" out of business. I'm glad you voted for trapping, instead of against it.
While its admirable to define good hunting, before the anti-s do, it doesn't seem effective to me. The anti-s are anti-hunting, all hunting. They'll chip away at it, one small group at a time. Hunting, is legal pursuit of animals, to kill them, that's a reasonable definition. Now, what kind we like and don't like is different. Stopping anything like trapping, using high power rifles, spring bears, high fence operations, is anti in its roots. There's plenty of ways to promote it, instead of letting it be chipped away, one group or category at a time. I agree with that idea.
Have you seen that NRA tape where the lady in England says, that's the price we have to pay, people have to give up their sport, in order to have a safer society? Its not safer, yet they are succeedig with arguments like that. They took all the guns away from law abiding citizens and cut them up and destroyed them in that tape. Support the NRA or it will happen here.
Calling people turds and wanting to burn up ranches is not to good of a response to these issues. I guess it might be fun to let out a little hot air.
Oak, I just wondered if you were as anti as the people who want to put those legally liscensed "game farms" out of business. I'm glad you voted for trapping, instead of against it.
While its admirable to define good hunting, before the anti-s do, it doesn't seem effective to me. The anti-s are anti-hunting, all hunting. They'll chip away at it, one small group at a time. Hunting, is legal pursuit of animals, to kill them, that's a reasonable definition. Now, what kind we like and don't like is different. Stopping anything like trapping, using high power rifles, spring bears, high fence operations, is anti in its roots. There's plenty of ways to promote it, instead of letting it be chipped away, one group or category at a time. I agree with that idea.
Have you seen that NRA tape where the lady in England says, that's the price we have to pay, people have to give up their sport, in order to have a safer society? Its not safer, yet they are succeedig with arguments like that. They took all the guns away from law abiding citizens and cut them up and destroyed them in that tape. Support the NRA or it will happen here.
Calling people turds and wanting to burn up ranches is not to good of a response to these issues. I guess it might be fun to let out a little hot air.
