MT shoulder season decision...

[Oak]

How in the world can you reference a district saying there are 10-15 bulls/100 cows and then later say you saw 10 bulls in there in 2010??? You saw every bull in the district? I have never felt that way one day in the Montana Mountains---never once did I feel that I saw every single bull in the district---

10-15 bulls per 100 cows.

 

[TRS_Montana]

Man Buzz, maybe give a new Montana district a try than....Shoot, there are still lots of elk around. Am I reading your post right?

How in the world can you reference a district saying there are 10-15 bulls/100 cows and then later say you saw 10 bulls in there in 2010??? You saw every bull in the district? I have never felt that way one day in the Montana Mountains---never once did I feel that I saw every single bull in the district---

1.) I hate what is going on in the Gardiner unit,
2.) I think the 200 districts are an absolute mess right now, although not all are doing bad,
Region 3 and 4 seem to be about regular from the "Non-scientific eye, boots on the ground, talk to your buddy---testing method
3.) I think harboring elk is a major problem in our state right now and completely messes up elk management practices.

*What I know is that darn near Everyone I know that hunts Elk even a little bit hard and diligent this year, either harvested an elk or chose to pass up multiple opportunities to take an elk.
I don't like the direction we are going right now but to say there are absolutely no elk around or they are scarce does not match up STATEWIDE for me.

Maybe it would help if you understood what a bull to cow ratio is before you jump down someone's throat. Saying he saw 10 bulls in a HD that has a ratio of 10/100 isn't the same thing as claiming to have seen all the bulls in the district (unless there are only 100 cows, I guess).
Your misguided understanding wouldn't be too dissimilar from me assuming that everyone you know that "hunts Elk even a little bit hard" constitutes all hunters in MT and this entire conversation is pointless because everyone will fill their tag in the general season next year.

The proposed regs for the upcoming hunting season are an absolute joke. I also don't get how the results from the "trial" shoulder seasons can be conclusive enough to propose shoulder seasons in 44 districts when we are 1/5 of the way through the "trial" season. I usually like to have my work graded when it's done, not when I've completed 20%.

Hopefully people show up and comment this week. I really can't imagine getting many straight-faced answers to good questions that have been brought up here.

 

[AH_14]

Got it TRS- my apologies, I incorrectly comprehended Buzz's statement,....sorry Buzz

 

[Bugle 'Em In]

I've got buddies of mine salivating at the chance to go get "their cows" in the upcoming days. Tough one to stomach.

I find it ironic that all these years you hear "officials" tell you how you shouldn't be out shed hunting too early b/c you'll harass the elk during their most vulnerable time (winter) but now these same people are saying..."go chase around and whack an elk until mid-February". I can't stop shaking my head on this one.

 

[Nameless Range]

Thanks for the clarification Randy and Rob. Some big changes.

Looks like folks will be back to slaying Mule Deer does in Western MT again next year. Look at the the amount of people who draw in some of the Unlimited Areas. Some of those areas exceed 1000 buck tags,and now they will open them up for some doe tags as well. Lordy.:W:

It is said that the good old days of elk are right now, and I believe it. Though I don't for a second doubt his experiences, my experiences in the HDs I hunt have not mirrored Buzz's. The last few years I've seen more elk than ever before, but I wonder if the changes he has seen is a peek into the future of my own HDs.

With proposals like this, it seems more and more plausible to me that we are on the tail-end of those good-old- days of elk. Better hunters, better equipment, worse-and-worse access, an incredible over-allocation of tags and now hunting season lasts half a year in some areas. This isn't sustainable.

 

[MTborn64]

I read this forum every day but I rarely post. I feel the need to vent on this subject. After reading the "elk master list" I don't know what the hell is going on! FWP's elk management plan has become a complete and total joke. I am particularly perplexed by HD217. Archery equipment for cows 8/15-1/15. No general firearms. Youth opportunity any weapon for cows 8/15-1/15. What the hell is this!? Am I understanding this right? I could be all camo'd up, stalking a group of cows at 30 yards while a 12 year old starts shooting with a rifle over my head at the same elk from 300 hundred yards? I could go on and on as I read changes in all of region 2. Page after page of head scratchers!

 

[belly-deep]

What happens if you get pounded by snow and cold and have a big winter kill? I would think having a little padding wouldn't hurt? You're over due for a real winter.

We had a real winter back in 2010/11. Critters still aren't back yet, although I don't think the elk were impacted much by it. Antelope numbers across the highline are still in the shitter.

 

[RobG]

You will probably be able to listen the Dec 10th meeting online. If anyone has a link please provide it or I'll try to track it down.

You can also go down and watch it at one of the regional headquarters.

 

[Chucknduck]

Just what elk herds need. When they are run down by a bad winter the best thing to do is get them running all over expending energy. (Sarcastic emoticon). My kid will have a hard time killing elk by the time he's old enough to hunt.

 

[Point Creep]

My kid will have a hard time killing elk by the time he's old enough to hunt.

Not if he's on the right landowner's direct dial list, heck he might be able to shoot 2 or 3 cows by then, although it will probably be in February or maybe in early August.

 

[RobG]

Not if he's on the right landowner's direct dial list, heck he might be able to shoot 2 or 3 cows by then, although it will probably be in February or maybe in early August.

The only question is how much that direct dial list will cost.... thinking a few hundred in unmarked bills for a cow, 10x more for the bull tags. Free for those already using their outfitter's glamour hunt during the general season.

 

[Lawnboy]

Just saw a post on Facebook from the RMEF cheerleading this thing like it's the greatest idea since sliced bread. Randy do you have any insight on what's going on back at the mothership on this issue?

 

[Big Fin]

Just saw a post on Facebook from the RMEF cheerleading this thing like it's the greatest idea since sliced bread. Randy do you have any insight on what's going on back at the mothership on this issue?

I don't have any insight as to what was provided as testimony or what position was given. I was on the road today. I will ask and see if I can provide anything here.

 

[Big Foot]

Mark Lambrecht from RMEF spoke in support for the shoulder seasons today during the meeting. I am curious why RMEF is supporting this?

 

[RobG]

The only question is how much that direct dial list will cost.... thinking a few hundred in unmarked bills for a cow, 10x more for the bull tags. Free for those already using their outfitter's glamour hunt during the general season.

Apparently Kelly Flynn is already "getting" the quid pro quo aspect of this new "opportunity"... http://www.montanaotg.com/blog-nati...ndowner-list-in-townsend-area-management-hunt

RE RMEF, I can see reasons to support this season since I'm a Montanan and have respect for the ranchers who lose money from elk depredation, but RMEF is saying on their facebook page there are too many elk for the carrying capacity so we need to bring their numbers down. Bullchit. When you can't be up front with the facts there is a problem...

 

[RobG]

Laura's write-up:
http://www.montanaotg.com/blog-native/2015/12/10/fwp-slates-shoulder-hunts-for-44-elk-districts

 

[bigskyblueman]

For all intents and purposes the general elk season next year will run to Feb.15th., just by another name.

 

[1_pointer]

Apparently Kelly Flynn is already "getting" the quid pro quo aspect of this new "opportunity"... http://www.montanaotg.com/blog-nati...ndowner-list-in-townsend-area-management-hunt

RE RMEF, I can see reasons to support this season since I'm a Montanan and have respect for the ranchers who lose money from elk depredation, but RMEF is saying on their facebook page there are too many elk for the carrying capacity so we need to bring their numbers down. Bullchit. When you can't be up front with the facts there is a problem...

As was pointed out to them on FB Over Objective and Over Carrying Capacity are very different things. I did notice they did not respond to that critique or change their post...

 

[Jwill]

Sounds like RMEF may be having another HR1581 moment...

 

[mtmiller]

I don't have any insight as to what was provided as testimony or what position was given. I was on the road today. I will ask and see if I can provide anything here.

I was not able to hear the testimony either. I am looking forward to hearing about RMEF rational on this subject.