MT EQC to determine corner crossing as "illegal"

[Straight Arrow]

EQC = Environmental Quality Contradiction.

 

[texwest44]

I’ve been trying to get an answer on this and maybe we can get this in front of the right people with this thread

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/gisresources/hunting/hunteraccess/blockman/region5/maps/44_smith_2025.pdf

I called the region 5 BMA map specialist named Ian and he told me you corner cross via foot at the corner to access that SE portion of the private. But that section is bordered by 2 different private land owners. But he was wondering why I was questioning if corner crossing can happen.

Is this actually a case where fwp shows it’s legal to corner cross?

There is another region 5 map in 540 that’s the same way where you can only access via corner crossing. I called fwp last fall about it and they sent me up the food chain ultimately with no one giving me an answer.

Brilliant. "No corner crossing in Montana! Unless you need to access land across corners in Montana."

Where do we draw the line and quit wasting good faith time arguing with bad faith actors? At what point do we all just start crossing corners all the time, hunting or not, and wear down the ability to enforce this absurd policy? If people can smoke crack and shoot dope on the sidewalk in Seattle, then I should be able to cross a corner in the middle of nowhere onto public land in Montana or Wyoming, or any other state that features a public-private land matrix where corners are crossed as a means of access.

I say we take a note from our crack-smoking brethren - just overwhelm the system, and wait for the callous to build. If governance is just another word for a system that can openly and arbitrarily deny your rights and privileges, well then we know what the answer is....

 

[BuzzH]

Brilliant. "No corner crossing in Montana! Unless you need to access land across corners in Montana."

Where do we draw the line and quit wasting good faith time arguing with bad faith actors? At what point do we all just start crossing corners all the time, hunting or not, and wear down the ability to enforce this absurd policy? If people can smoke crack and shoot dope on the sidewalk in Seattle, then I should be able to cross a corner in the middle of nowhere onto public land in Montana or Wyoming.

I say we take a note from our crack-smoking brethren - just overwhelm the system, and wait for the callous to build. If governance is just another word for a system that can openly and arbitrarily deny your rights and privileges, well then we know what the answer is....


View attachment 408251

You can cross corners in Wyoming legally...in case you missed the memo.

 

[texwest44]

You can cross corners in Wyoming legally...in case you missed the memo.

I know, 10th circuit such n such. Making a general (crazy) point.

 

[Wildabeest]

Brilliant. "No corner crossing in Montana! Unless you need to access land across corners in Montana."

Where do we draw the line and quit wasting good faith time arguing with bad faith actors? At what point do we all just start crossing corners all the time, hunting or not, and wear down the ability to enforce this absurd policy? If people can smoke crack and shoot dope on the sidewalk in Seattle, then I should be able to cross a corner in the middle of nowhere onto public land in Montana or Wyoming, or any other state that features a public-private land matrix where corners are crossed as a means of access.

I say we take a note from our crack-smoking brethren - just overwhelm the system, and wait for the callous to build. If governance is just another word for a system that can openly and arbitrarily deny your rights and privileges, well then we know what the answer is....


View attachment 408251

 

[Wild Bill]

I say we take a note from our crack-smoking brethren

Amen.

 

[velvetfvr]

Brilliant. "No corner crossing in Montana! Unless you need to access land across corners in Montana."

Where do we draw the line and quit wasting good faith time arguing with bad faith actors? At what point do we all just start crossing corners all the time, hunting or not, and wear down the ability to enforce this absurd policy? If people can smoke crack and shoot dope on the sidewalk in Seattle, then I should be able to cross a corner in the middle of nowhere onto public land in Montana or Wyoming, or any other state that features a public-private land matrix where corners are crossed as a means of access.

I say we take a note from our crack-smoking brethren - just overwhelm the system, and wait for the callous to build. If governance is just another word for a system that can openly and arbitrarily deny your rights and privileges, well then we know what the answer is....


View attachment 408251

No one in state history has been charged with trespassing via corner crossing. And it was accepted until recently. I personally think it’s rich people influencing agencies to say it’s illegal and pressure the public from accessing public land next to the land the landowners own.

 

[Straight Arrow]

No one in state history has been charged with trespassing via corner crossing. And it was accepted until recently. I personally think it’s rich people influencing agencies to say it’s illegal and pressure the public from accessing public land next to the land the landowners own.

I think you are correct. Also consider that: "rich people" = the current administrations at federal and state levels.

 

[texwest44]

I personally think it’s rich people influencing agencies to say it’s illegal and pressure the public from accessing public land next to the land the landowners own.

Agreed.

I'd ask the voters of western states to stop getting duped by the economic and social elite, but it's probably easier just to organize the massive corner crossing events.

Cross Fest 26! Be there, and jump squares!

 

[Big Fin]

I had to drop off the video when the Director started talking. Did they allow much for public comment on corner crossing? I had hoped to attend in person, but schedules made that impossible.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I had to drop off the video when the Director started talking. Did they allow much for public comment on corner crossing? I had hoped to attend in person, but schedules made that impossible.

They did. I also couldnt make it, but could only listen later...

Cal with BHA asked if it was a legal opinion, or established law. A former fwp employee testfied (hats off to this guy - Michael Volesky) that this was pure BS not in line with historical practice at fwp and was inventing law.

A couple more folks testified and some legislators asked several good follow ups.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

Montana’s Lt. Gov. Says Corner Crossing Is Illegal. Critics Say the Law Isn't Clear

Montana's Lieutenant Governor declared corner crossing illegal in the state on Wednesday, but the law remains unclear to many stakeholders.

www.outdoorlife.com

I caught the last hour of the corner crossing portion. I'll echo Forkyfinder, Volesky had great testimony.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Montana’s Lt. Gov. Says Corner Crossing Is Illegal. Critics Say the Law Isn't Clear

Montana's Lieutenant Governor declared corner crossing illegal in the state on Wednesday, but the law remains unclear to many stakeholders.

www.outdoorlife.com

I caught the last hour of the corner crossing portion. I'll echo Forkyfinder, Volesky had great testimony.

He's not buying a beer if im around .

 

[velvetfvr]

Agreed.

I'd ask the voters of western states to stop getting duped by the economic and social elite, but it's probably easier just to organize the massive corner crossing events.

Cross Fest 26! Be there, and jump squares!

The other thing is if 2 private corners touching makes it private, the same argument is made that 2 public corners touching is public. So that argument is really easy to nullify.

If you corner crossed at a surveyed marker and didn’t touch the other fence and truly went from one to another I don’t know how anyone could be charged with trespassing. I could see if you touch the wrong fence and step on the wrong side, but if you truly don’t touch I don’t think you could get any sane person to believe it was trespassing. And air space can’t be logical either because if I’m walking on the sidewalk and I put my arm out over ones lawn it’s never been called trespassing by going into the air space.

I honestly think if people did it right and didn’t touch a piece of private we could call their bluff. I really think they’re bluffing and they know only by bluffing it’ll keep the public off public lands private landowners want exclusive access too.

Also as much as they say it’s illegal, do we actually think any of these people saying it is illegal would risk their political and law future over this kind of case? Because Wyoming is just like Montana and they lost in Wyoming. I don’t see why they wouldn’t lose in Montana either

 

[WapitiBob]

“My purpose with asking Lieutenant Governor Juras to present today, I feel, has been accomplished because we’ve heard what the law is in Montana,” Fielder said at the end of the corner crossing discussion, shutting down further debate. “If other people have other interpretations of it, even if it’s a judge, I don’t value the opinion of all these judges. I think they make some poor opinions myself. And that’s my opinion.”

well, OK then

 

[texwest44]

Also as much as they say it’s illegal, do we actually think any of these people saying it is illegal would risk their political and law future over this kind of case?

Narrator: They did.

 

[Gerald Martin]

“My purpose with asking Lieutenant Governor Juras to present today, I feel, has been accomplished because we’ve heard what the law is in Montana,” Fielder said at the end of the corner crossing discussion, shutting down further debate. “If other people have other interpretations of it, even if it’s a judge, I don’t value the opinion of all these judges. I think they make some poor opinions myself. And that’s my opinion.”

well, OK then

I guess it’s settled then….

Don’t you laugh Buzz. Rep. Fielder is an “expert” on all things regarding public landowners’ rights…..

 

[Big Sky Guy]

The other thing is if 2 private corners touching makes it private, the same argument is made that 2 public corners touching is public. So that argument is really easy to nullify.

If you corner crossed at a surveyed marker and didn’t touch the other fence and truly went from one to another I don’t know how anyone could be charged with trespassing. I could see if you touch the wrong fence and step on the wrong side, but if you truly don’t touch I don’t think you could get any sane person to believe it was trespassing. And air space can’t be logical either because if I’m walking on the sidewalk and I put my arm out over ones lawn it’s never been called trespassing by going into the air space.

I honestly think if people did it right and didn’t touch a piece of private we could call their bluff. I really think they’re bluffing and they know only by bluffing it’ll keep the public off public lands private landowners want exclusive access too.

Also as much as they say it’s illegal, do we actually think any of these people saying it is illegal would risk their political and law future over this kind of case? Because Wyoming is just like Montana and they lost in Wyoming. I don’t see why they wouldn’t lose in Montana either

This whole charade is just more evidence to me that there will likely never be a corner crossing case in Montana.

 

[DFS]

I would have liked to tell her that some people are built different and elk are sometimes packed out on backs. I think fwp and the Lt. Governor would have been better off staying silent on this issue, a miscalculation that will come to a head and likely not go the way they think. If you feel the need to cross corners step over a pin is my legal advice. (I am not a lawyer)

 

[Nameless Range]

“My purpose with asking Lieutenant Governor Juras to present today, I feel, has been accomplished because we’ve heard what the law is in Montana,” Fielder said at the end of the corner crossing discussion, shutting down further debate. “If other people have other interpretations of it, even if it’s a judge, I don’t value the opinion of all these judges. I think they make some poor opinions myself. And that’s my opinion.”

well, OK then

We exist in an age of rampant unprofessionalism, but this is a wacky thing for the chair of a public committee, from which no actual authority on the subject at hand exists, to say.