Straight Arrow
Well-known member
I agree.
Montana’s Culture of Leniency Toward Poaching
- Thread starter MTGomer
- Start date
Good ol boy syndrome? I don't think so. Mostly it boils down to case load. At least in the county I live in. Wildlife violations take a back seat to other offenses. It's not right, but it is how it goes. mtmuley
Doublecluck
Well-known member
Pretty cut and dry from what I heard, dude thought he made a mistake and would go plead guilty, say sorry to the judge and make sure he stepped over the fence next time. Maybe pay a couple hundred dollar fine. 87-6-403 wording states “shall” instead of “may” lose hunting privelages for 24 months. Judge said his hands were tied. When he protested after the judge told him he was going to lose his license for two years the judge got pissed and raised the fine from 200 to the max of 1000 is what he said. Dude seems pretty honest he always told me when he made a mistake when I was his manager. Could have been full of it I suppose.
Either way the point of my response is far to often in this country the punishment for people who make dumb mistakes and people who are outright law breaking poachers all to often seems the same.
El Jason
Well-known member
In reality, it’s some of each.
El Jason
Well-known member
Which is what mandatory sentencing gets you. The reality is, he could have either been cited under a different statute, or he should have pleaded not guilty and asked for a plea deal through the prosecutor.
El Jason
Well-known member
Montana does not have a civil forfeiture law, which allows the state to seize assets used in the commit of a crime. The judge can order the forfeiture as part of sentencing, but it is not commonly done.
If MRCool indeed had a special permit for the unit, then trespassing was used as the means of charging him with unlawful possession.
If MRCool indeed had a special permit for the unit, then trespassing was used as the means of charging him with unlawful possession.
antelopedundee
Well-known member
Is Matt Cool still your friend?
noharleyyet
Well-known member
#watchyerstep Gomer, the sidewalk gumshoes are on the case.
MJE2083
Well-known member
That's easy to say, until you are faced with the prospect of having to spend thousands of dollars, lose your job, house, etc, and spend a significant amount of time in prison.
"Ben Lamb
Elections have consequences. "
If you care about better sentencing for this kind of behavior, ask your judicial candidates where they stand on wildlife crimes. FWP can only write the citation. The local judge, justice, etc is the one who sentences."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Letters to the editor, call into talk radio, social media. Put the onus on the Judge to answer for the lenient sentencing!
The older I get the more emails, letters and phone calls I make to our elected officials to push my point of view and ask them to justify their actions. The message is always delivered in a civil, cogent manner, sometimes a bit colorful just because adjectives are fun.
This particular judge has some splaining to do.
Elections have consequences. "
If you care about better sentencing for this kind of behavior, ask your judicial candidates where they stand on wildlife crimes. FWP can only write the citation. The local judge, justice, etc is the one who sentences."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Letters to the editor, call into talk radio, social media. Put the onus on the Judge to answer for the lenient sentencing!
The older I get the more emails, letters and phone calls I make to our elected officials to push my point of view and ask them to justify their actions. The message is always delivered in a civil, cogent manner, sometimes a bit colorful just because adjectives are fun.
This particular judge has some splaining to do.
Labman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2015
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- 614
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...titutional-violates-the-eighth-amendment/amp/
USSC will decide soon if any state has the right a to civil forfeiture law.
Killergaurd
Member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2017
- Messages
- 85
Politics.
onpoint
Well-known member
"Does anybody have any thoughts on how citizens might demand better"? Gomer.
"Elections have consequences. " Ben Lamb.
"The older I get the more emails, letters and phone calls I make to our elected officials to push my point of view and ask them to justify their actions". Slam.
"Politics" Killerguard.
A question is asked.
Answers are given. Some's feelings get hurt by the answers.
"Politics" IS actually answer, whether you lean left or right - doesn't matter. LAWS are legislated and ELECTED judges judge. You can curl up on the floor in the fetal position or cover your ears and go BLAH BLAH BLAH, or actually attempt to be part of the solution to the problem(s).
This stuff doesn't get solved in the internet.
Merry Christmas.
"Elections have consequences. " Ben Lamb.
"The older I get the more emails, letters and phone calls I make to our elected officials to push my point of view and ask them to justify their actions". Slam.
"Politics" Killerguard.
A question is asked.
Answers are given. Some's feelings get hurt by the answers.
"Politics" IS actually answer, whether you lean left or right - doesn't matter. LAWS are legislated and ELECTED judges judge. You can curl up on the floor in the fetal position or cover your ears and go BLAH BLAH BLAH, or actually attempt to be part of the solution to the problem(s).
This stuff doesn't get solved in the internet.
Merry Christmas.
Last edited:
A recent Ohio case with a different yet curious outcome for how long the hunter lost his license.
https://woodburyoutfitters.com/the-...-county-deer-poached-amish-man-fined-2874146/
https://woodburyoutfitters.com/the-...-county-deer-poached-amish-man-fined-2874146/
Just for the sake of discussion, the facts of both cases are not exactly the same, the Ohio poacher had no valid buck tag and did some pretty unethical things trying to cover his tracks, however, the "restitution" fine to the state was $121.92 per inch. A poached bull of 391 inches = a $47,670.72 restitution fee.
Those fine amounts are significant and get peoples attention, regardless if you think they are over the top excessive.
What blows my mind is the 1 yr license suspension. I think the judge was so blown away that Junior Troyer was able to pay the fine on the spot that he lost his head. Now, to find out where that fine went - I hope it did not go to the General Fund rather than the Div of Wildlife.
Those fine amounts are significant and get peoples attention, regardless if you think they are over the top excessive.
What blows my mind is the 1 yr license suspension. I think the judge was so blown away that Junior Troyer was able to pay the fine on the spot that he lost his head. Now, to find out where that fine went - I hope it did not go to the General Fund rather than the Div of Wildlife.
Brian in Montana
Well-known member
Truer words weren't never spake.
Killing a wolf that was unknowingly across the park line, in a state that treats wolves like vermin, gets you twice the fine as the premeditated, intentional poaching and all the crimes that accompany said poaching, of one of the largest typical bull elk in existence.
The wolf fine seems fair for an accident. Still have trouble rationalizing how what amounts to pennies for anybody with a job is a good fine for any elk, much less a trophy of a lifetime.
https://www.ksl.com/article/4648509...killing-wolf-inside-grand-teton-national-park
The wolf fine seems fair for an accident. Still have trouble rationalizing how what amounts to pennies for anybody with a job is a good fine for any elk, much less a trophy of a lifetime.
https://www.ksl.com/article/4648509...killing-wolf-inside-grand-teton-national-park
El Jason
Well-known member
Comparing federal court to state court is apples and oranges. I don’t necessarily disagree with your premise, but you can’t realistically make the comparison.
