Montana’s Culture of Leniency Toward Poaching

[ClearCreek]

Poachers should be made to work at check stations in the fall while wearing a shirt that explains what animals they poached.

I know some people that work at check stations and they would hate to have people charged with a poaching offense working beside them. Most would probably refuse to work if a person like this was going to be there.

ClearCreek

 

[Fire_9]

I don’t disagree with much of what’s being said. I was just relaying what I was told.

 

[onpoint]

Hey gomer,
You titled your thread "Montana’s Cultire of Leniency Toward Poaching". I agree 100%.
I was simply pointing out that the illegal taking of one animal and it's penalty(s) is a symptom of a problem that exists with ALL wildlife/fish/etc related issues, including the legal side of things.
Apparently it got your little panties in a wad as you're the one that brought up all the other crap including the political shit. Once again, I agreed with you........
Nuff said. Carry on.

 

[MTGomer]

Hey gomer,
You titled your thread "Montana’s Cultire of Leniency Toward Poaching". I agree 100%.
I was simply pointing out that the illegal taking of one animal and it's penalty(s) is a symptom of a problem that exists with ALL wildlife/fish/etc related issues, including the legal side of things.
Apparently it got your little panties in a wad as you're the one that brought up all the other crap including the political shit. Once again, I agreed with you........
Nuff said. Carry on.

I’m not sure where you get the idea that you angered me. You made the statement that things like this get more attention than issues like access. I pointed out there a hundreds of threads on access. That doesn’t equate to being angry.

Glad we agree

 

[blb078]

I think the lack of seriousness for wildlife crimes is typical in general everywhere. There are a few cases were it seems criminals received adequate systems but in general I've seen mostly reduced fines and suspended sentences.

Here is WA we have a group of poachers that are 2nd time offenders, that are currently thought to have illegally killed >50 animals. The leader's son was convicted of 4 of the 56 charge filed the other 52 were dropped. Several of the lower tier members have gotten off with very minor sentencing (i.e. small fines, completely reduced jail time). http://www.chronline.com/crime/poac...cle_355356e0-e83b-11e8-a3f9-e7537500a9a5.html

Sorry to hijack. But I don't think it's just a MT problem. Part of me wants to make these cases more mainstream so people realize the kinds of wildlife thefts that are occurring, but I recognize not everyone will understand the difference between a hunter and a poacher.

Maybe in MO they take it more seriously. This guy and his family where recently sentenced. He got 1 year in jail, plus another 120 days. Permanent loss of license, not that it matters to him, and six figures in fines and bonds. That was due to a 3 year poaching operation he did and it was probably light because pleaded guilty and didn't fight it.

https://www-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproj...ly-as-part-of-poaching-punishment-judge-rules

 

[aws1963]

Angering for sure. It's not isolated to any specific jurisdictions. I have a family member who was a F & G Warden here in CA many years ago. After multiple times seeing just this type of soft treatment he changed careers. He finally had enough when he worked for weeks making a case against 2 individuals taking multiple deer and hogs out of season and all on private property (not theirs). Shooting on public roadways, etc.... When he went to court, the judge lowered the charges to nearly nothing and gave them small fines, 12 month license suspensions and I believe their guns back. The reason was "they do not understand the laws" since English was not their primary language (they spoke fluent English everywhere except the courthouse). I believe he got threatened with a contempt charge for stating "That's BS" loud enough for the judge to hear while he was gathering up his case files.

To be crystal clear, race is not my point of this story. There were multiple incidents of all races being let off with virtually no accountability. This particular one was the final straw.

 

[Nameless Range]

One day or night Matthew Cool decided to poach this bull on private land, drive his pickup illegally onto federal public lands, unloaded an ATV, tore up a creek bottom with it, cut the fence into private property, entered the private property, cut two more fences and recovered the bull.

Any one of these things on their own could justify his punishment. Cumulatively he should have got way more. You're right this is way too lenient. Sometimes MT gets it right, for example, the kid who shot the "Pit Buck" in Butte a couple years back got an $11,000 fine and lost hunting rights for 5 years. That would be a bit closer to what this bastard should have got.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Just wearing sweatpants in a picture with any animal should be automatic jail-time...

 

[Dinkshooter]

A bool that big on one of the famous southern Indian Rez's would probably be north of $35,000 no?

 

[Dinkshooter]

Just wearing sweatpants in a picture with any animal should be automatic jail-time...

With a name like Cool you have to look the part...................................

 

[RobG]

I didn’t time it, but if I had to guess I would say it took me between two and four minutes to type that. Not exactly an amazing amount of attention.
If not for my friends involvement, I would not know about it, so you’re right about that. The poaching of one of the largest typical elk in the country this year isn’t news worthy so I only learned of it through him.
Speaking of those topics, I found it interesting that the BLM refers to FWP to enforce the illegal ATV use across closed public land, and when that charge isn’t prosecuted they do nothing. I bet you could get in hot water with BLM just by doing what he did on the ATV, if hunting infractions weren’t involved and you dealt with BLM LEO instead. If not, it’s no wonder why we hear of so much illegal ATV use.

Fines for ATVs illegally on public lands are so light they are essentially non-existent. Many hunters literally just figure it into the cost of hunting.

 

[RobG]

I want to start by saying I'm in no way defending this man. I totally agree he's the type of person that gives us all a bad name. I'm just going to repeat what I was told by a warden. This was not considered a poaching case as he held a valid tag. If he wouldn't have held a permit, the outcome would have been way different. Trespasser, not a poacher...

Violation was unlawful possession. I guess the landowner didn't care about the trespass. It doesn't seem like much of a deterrent to shoot a bull on someone else's property and take your chances getting it out.

 

[noharleyyet]

A bool that big on one of the famous southern Indian Rez's would probably be north of $35,000 no?

..plus brushbeaters, spotters/head & heelers posse gratuity.

 

[VikingsGuy]

i don't see that he lost the bull,

if he retained possession a 390 bull in todays market, he got it really cheap, hell a guy could do that every year and be cheaper than paying for a guided hunt for the chance at that caliber of bull,

^^this^^ The penalty for illegal hunting shouldn't be less than the cost of legal hunting!

 

[RobG]

OK, I see the second write-up was for criminal mischief on top of the illegal possession. Seems like he could have also been hit with criminal trespass while hunting if the landowner cared.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Elections have consequences.

If you care about better sentencing for this kind of behavior, ask your judicial candidates where they stand on wildlife crimes. FWP can only write the citation. The local judge, justice, etc is the one who sentences.

 

[Doublecluck]

Ridiculous , Guy where I used to work didn’t fill any of his general tags. He only feeds his family game meat and meat from animals he raises. He decides to go out and shoot a doe in a late season zone. He had his wife and kid in the car and it was -10 out. He sees some does on some private and pulls up to the ranch house and obtained permission to go shoot one. Proceeds to drive down the road, gets out and walks to the edge of the road and shoots one with his slug gun. Neighbor thinks he’s poaching and calls the warden. Warden shows up and asks him where he shot it from and proceeds to cite him for a violation that is intended to keep people from hazing elk. He lost his license for two years and paid a 1000 dollar fine. Sure he would be delighted to know that the punishment for shooting 390” bull without a permit in a draw zone on private property without permission and driving a Atv across public private land and destroying private property is only 500 more.. lol. What a Joke..

 

[Sasquatchewan]

Just wearing sweatpants in a picture with any animal should be automatic jail-time...

This guy gets it.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Warden shows up and asks him where he shot it from and proceeds to cite him for a violation that is intended to keep people from hazing elk. He lost his license for two years and paid a 1000 dollar fine.

Something tells me there's more to that story.

 

[MJE2083]

It's everywhere. Fact of the matter is that game law violations are looked at as a joke in many many parts of the country. I don't mean to sound flippant, but the Courts often have bigger fish to fry. Prosecutors won't tie up the Courts time and resources for "lower level stuff" so plea bargains are made. Mandatory minimums are not the answer either because they take discretion away from those who need it. Look at Jared Kushner and the Feds, they're lessening things in the criminal justice system, not increasing them.

Don't get me wrong, I think that things like this are pretty serious and should be treated as such, but the vast majority of the non-hunting public don't think so.