Montana Regional Caps and Limited Entry for Mule Deer.

[El Jason]

A survey of resident deer hunters…

 

[Gerald Martin]

I think the part you miss with the 200,00 deer hunters is a resident buys a license they are a hunter even if they only go out one day or only hunt private might have very little impact on the overall pressure on the resource

A nr buys a license you better believe they are going to be there for a week at a minimum and most are going to do more then that to fill a tag. Just curious are you a nr to montana now?

I am a MT resident.

I’m going from memory and have a lot of numbers running around in my head but average hunter days for NR is @ 6.8.

Average hunter days for R is 7.8.

The 170,000 R’s hunting on average a day more that NR’s adds up to a lot more felt pressure than 30,000 NR’s who hunt on average a day less.

 

[El Jason]

The 170,000 R’s hunting on average a day more that NR’s adds up to a lot more felt pressure than 30,000 NR’s who hunt on average a day less.

By my caveman math, that’s 170k more hunter days.

 

[Archer86]

I am a MT resident.

I’m going from memory and have a lot of numbers running around in my head but average hunter days for NR is @ 6.8.

Average hunter days for R is 7.8.

The 170,000 R’s hunting on average a day more that NR’s adds up to a lot more felt pressure than 30,000 NR’s who hunt on average a day less.

That data is based on well bad data that's collected 6 months after the hunt and the median age responding on both sides is 50 to 53 I think. I bet you we get a different survey result if they required a hunter report the week after the season closed.

Has montana deer hunting increase in pressure the last 10 to 12 years?

 

[Gerald Martin]

That data is based on well bad data that's collected 6 months after the hunt and the median age responding on both sides is 50 to 53 I think. I bet you we get a different survey result if they required a hunter report the week after the season closed.

Has montana deer hunting increase in pressure the last 10 to 12 years?

Overall a few less hunters but at least a 12% increase in resident hunter days over that time.

I’m all in favor of mandatory reporting to get better data.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Likely will not need BP unless we cut tags.

You could print 150k LE mule tags and that would be a significant slash.

 

[Forkyfinder]

By my caveman math, that’s 170k more hunter days.

Is it hunter days or harvest data the driver of whats happening?

The conclusion that "more hunter days means less quality hunting" is odd. The years 2025 - almost any and every jobs got PTO your first year.

 

[antlerradar]

You could print 150k LE mule tags and that would be a significant slash.

That would be a huge increase in pressure on mule deer, There are roughly 200K deer licenses and 40% are being filled on whitetails.

 

[NY_BLUES]

I've hunted with Outfitters twice in Montana. Both times I spent large quantities of cash in the local economies. License and tag money to the state, fees to the outfitter, money spent with the meat cutter, restaurants, gas stations...

Going after someone spending thousands of dollars in the local economy seems kinda dumb. Why cut out those extra dollars? I have done DIY hunts out west and spent much, much less.

If Montanan's want me to spend my money elsewhere, there are several other states lined up that will gladly take my money.

Cutting NR tags along with Resident tags is only part of the solution to help rebuild the mule deer herds. But complaining that outfitters and their clients are the problem is hardly a good argument. The outfit I went with cut their number of mule deer hunters by 30 per year from 2020 to 2023, on their own, without anyone saying they had to.

In my opinion, the 1st thing they should do is eliminate doe tags. Can't rebuild a herd when you keep killing off the ladies.

 

[Forkyfinder]

If Montanan's want me to spend my money elsewhere, there are several other states lined up that will gladly take my money.

Is wyoming, colorado, utah, and idaho shitting on outfitters?

 

[Archer86]

Overall a few less hunters but at least a 12% increase in resident hunter days over that time.

I’m all in favor of mandatory reporting to get better data.

I dont care about hunter days. There are less resident hunters or the same. The hunter days could be skewed one way or the other really no changes should be made until you have good data.

How many nr hunters have increased in that same time frame

 

[NY_BLUES]

Have you hunted with an outfitter in Montana?
When I purchase an outfitter endorsed point, my tag is only valid when im physically hunting with that outfitter. Not valid on public or private without that outfitter. My tag will be punched on land that is probably private, and probably would not be open to John Q. Public if the outfitter didn't lease that ground.

And those other states aren't shitting on outfitters to my knowledge, but I haven't hunted those states with Outfitters. I chose Montana because my senior citizen father has a much easier time with eastern montana than the mountains of Colorado.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Is it hunter days or harvest data the driver of whats happening?

The conclusion that "more hunter days means less quality hunting" is odd. The years 2025 - almost any and every jobs got PTO your first year.

Hunter days are the “felt pressure” that lowers the quality of the hunting experience and is why folks are complaining about too many hunters when there actually aren’t more licenses sold now than before.

Harvest data is showing that the number of deer that are being killed relative to the overall population of deer is not sustainable for maintaining decent age class, buck/doe ratios in the surviving population of deer.

It doesn’t matter if we killed 50,000 deer 20 years ago and we’re still killing 50,000 deer today. What matters is the percentage of the herd that is being killed. FWP generally looks at overall long term harvest as an indicator of sustainability and says that as long as we’re still killing the same amount of deer things are looking good.

We’re saying that the fact that hunters are taking longer to kill the same amount of deer and lowered post season buck/doe ratios is an indicator of declining quality. FWP’s numbers clearly show an overall decline in the mule deer population as well.
Killing the same amount while population levels are depressed doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I dont care about hunter days. There are less resident hunters or the same. The hunter days could be skewed one way or the other really no changes should be made until you have good data.

How many nr hunters have increased in that same time frame

The data FWP is showing is tracking with the anecdotal evidence of hunters in the field. Whether or not you care about hunter days is irrelevant. The same amount of hunters in the woods for more days per year is going to affect hunter crowding.


Overall NR hunters have increased during the past several years. The overall amount of NR hunters days isnt in parity with the increase of R hunter days.

With the legislature passing restrictions on NR antlerless harvest we should see a reduction of some NR hunters who bought only antlerless licenses and came to hunt antlerless animals. That is a good thing and will help some, but we’re talking tens of thousands of hunter days, not hundreds of thousands.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Killing the same amount while population levels are depressed doesn’t make sense to me.

Your proposal does nothing to address that - if people are already willing to hunt that long theyll also shoot one in october.

 

[Forkyfinder]

The data FWP is showing is tracking with the anecdotal evidence of hunters in the field. Whether or not you care about hunter days is irrelevant. The same amount of hunters in the woods for more days per year is going to affect hunter crowding.


Overall NR hunters have increased during the past several years. The overall amount of NR hunters days isnt in parity with the increase of R hunter days.

With the legislature passing restrictions on NR antlerless harvest we should see a reduction of some NR hunters who bought only antlerless licenses and came to hunt antlerless animals. That is a good thing and will help some, but we’re talking tens of thousands of hunter days, not hundreds of thousands.

Trend Analysis of Hunter Days in Montana

Shared via Copilot

copilot.microsoft.com

Heres what unbiased analysis of that data looks like.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Have you hunted with an outfitter in Montana?
When I purchase an outfitter endorsed point, my tag is only valid when im physically hunting with that outfitter. Not valid on public or private without that outfitter. My tag will be punched on land that is probably private, and probably would not be open to John Q. Public if the outfitter didn't lease that ground.

And those other states aren't shitting on outfitters to my knowledge, but I haven't hunted those states with Outfitters. I chose Montana because my senior citizen father has a much easier time with eastern montana than the mountains of Colorado.

Those states all have:

NR Regional caps or LE

 

[Nick87]

If this thread is any indication of how things are going to be perceived you guys have a long road ahead of you. Everybody wants what's best for them and only them. Same thing here. Pathetic.

 

[Archer86]

The data FWP is showing is tracking with the anecdotal evidence of hunters in the field. Whether or not you care about hunter days is irrelevant. The same amount of hunters in the woods for more days per year is going to affect hunter crowding.


Overall NR hunters have increased during the past several years. The overall amount of NR hunters days isnt in parity with the increase of R hunter days.

With the legislature passing restrictions on NR antlerless harvest we should see a reduction of some NR hunters who bought only antlerless licenses and came to hunt antlerless animals. That is a good thing and will help some, but we’re talking tens of thousands of hunter days, not hundreds of thousands.

R days dont mean crap. A resident hunter can be out supposedly hunting as long as the have there coffee a tag and driving in a hunting unit. Actually pressure out of the truck is more likely with nr who pay 1000 for a deer tag.

No matter what you think the data shows nr hunters have a greater impact on the resources they hunt with a greater sense of urgency they have a week or two to fill the tag where residents have all season go out a day or two hear and there and make that 10 days easy when you can hunt September October November. You should have 20 resident hunter days per hunter really

 

[DFS]

The funding aspect is a stupid argument. If we don’t have the deer that funding will go away in the long term. It’s a very short sighted argument. It’s not hard to look at the facts, nonresidents are hammering mule deer during the rut in open country in region 7. They have been for 15 years or more. They need to be neutered or sent to private land and outfitters.