Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[Sioux33]

I think your proposal is realistic, but I question if it would be impactful. The comment I highlight sort of shows that. People giving up something that they don't value isn't really giving.

I'd argue that the issue isn't what archers need to give up, it's how we can make something suitable for everyone, maintain an "opportunity state" because FWP will always hang it's hat on that, but keep that opportunity out of the rut and relieve public lands so the animals are willing to stick around where they're accessible to all of us.

I think a 2 week dead period to set up rifle season plus taking 99% of rifle season out of the heart of the rut would be very impactful and we'd see a major difference in less than 5 years.

 

[Gerald Martin]

The B tag is useful to FWP for management, but the revenue it generates is like cocaine.

My end logic is that since FWP is an addict that won’t stop using and our current dealer can’t keep up with supply we’re going to need to transition to a different dealer.

Translation- I’m beginning to believe that relying solely on hunters to fund FWP isn’t sustainable without inevitably excluding a vast segment of folks by way of rising license fees. The wildlife of MT belongs to all the residents of the state, not just hunters. I think all the residents should bear the cost of running FWP since they manage for all the residents.

Maybe the legislators reading this thread could run a bill next session to divert some of that Weed Tax that Gianforte clawed from Habitat MT over into FWP’s yearly operating budget.

 

[Sytes]

I feel like as a group we captured a pretty good amount of what needs to happen and balanced it with what can happen because of the experience of the members, the diversity of defending the particular needs of individual regions, resources , and user groups. The willingness to compromise personal preferences to achieve a common goal let us collectively explore how to best achieve common goals in a collaborative fashion rather than in conflict.

There’s no doubt that as we consider feedback we’re going to identify areas that we’ll want to tweak. Other folks lobbying the persons entrusted with making the final policy decisions will affect our proposal as well.

The value of discussion. Appreciated.

Maybe the legislators reading this thread could run a bill next session to divert some of that Weed Tax that Gianforte clawed from Habitat MT over into FWP’s yearly operating budget.

Or a State outdoor user stamp. Want to hike the lands that require funding to maintain the florra and fauna, here's your opportunity to support your experience.
I'm sure our Wardens could sure use a fair market salary among other employees and adaquate funding for administrative tasks, such as an operational helicopter for R1 wildlife counts.

 

[SAJ-99]

...maintain an "opportunity state" because FWP will always hang it's hat on that...

To stick with our cocaine analogy, that is the addict blaming the dealer.
I think pick-a-unit/region (at least for NR) and mandatory reporting would be a start at collecting better data. That should a pretty easy ask.

It might help some to revist this thread. There were some surprising takeaways.

Montana Elk and Deer- By the Numbers

Recently, @Ben Lamb posted up some extremely valuable information regarding the number of licenses sold in Montana over the past ten years. I think the information contained in his attachment and what it means for the sustainability of Montana’s deer and elk herds pertinent enough to deserve...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[Visiting Hunter]

My end logic is that since FWP is an addict that won’t stop using and our current dealer can’t keep up with supply we’re going to need to transition to a different dealer.

Translation- I’m beginning to believe that relying solely on hunters to fund FWP isn’t sustainable without inevitably excluding a vast segment of folks by way of rising license fees. The wildlife of MT belongs to all the residents of the state, not just hunters. I think all the residents should bear the cost of running FWP since they manage for all the residents.

Maybe the legislators reading this thread could run a bill next session to divert some of that Weed Tax that Gianforte clawed from Habitat MT over into FWP’s yearly operating budget.

I agree, I was just trying to toss around something that could maybe help funding. I've been saying taxes should help fund the department for years. In addition to tag sales.

If you buy a license plate in mt you buy a conservation license, and that was seen as enough.

 

[mthuntress406]

Is there email contacts for the 9 members who created this proposal? It would be good to be transparent and share contact information so folks can discuss beyond HT or Facebook groups. Thanks!

 

[raghornkiller]

From a biological perspective you’re probably right. From a hunter safety standpoint of mixing archers and rifle hunters it could be problematic.

There’s also the enforcement issue of the inevitable folks who would be archery hunting elk and carrying a rifle on their back for a mule deer that couldn’t resist extending their range a bit when that bugling bull won’t close within bow range..

OK that makes sense but if these proposals are about helping mule deer why not just make it the last 3 weeks in October? I get that a longer season reduces crowding but how many people are going to be hunting mule deer the first week in October anyway?

 

[Ought Six]

OK that makes sense but if these proposals are about helping mule deer why not just make it the last 3 weeks in October? I get that a longer season reduces crowding but how many people are going to be hunting mule deer the first week in October anyway?

 

[cgasner1]

Is there email contacts for the 9 members who created this proposal? It would be good to be transparent and share contact information so folks can discuss beyond HT or Facebook groups. Thanks!

None of us are hiding by any means and I’m pretty sure you have all my contact information. I’ve had multiple phone conversations today with people that have read it on Facebook and called me

 

[Carnage2011]

None of us are hiding by any means and I’m pretty sure you have all my contact information. I’ve had multiple phone conversations today with people that have read it on Facebook and called me

It still would be a good stroke for emails to at least be on the proposal. It allows for transparency and easy access to answer questions.

 

[cgasner1]

It still would be a good stroke for emails to at least be on the proposal. It allows for transparency and easy access to answer questions.

I’d agree but this is also the comments a guy is getting just for volunteering to be on the fwp committee. Keep in mind he also said he did not like our purposal

 

[Straight Arrow]

I’d agree but this is also the comments a guy is getting just for volunteering to be on the fwp committee. Keep in mind he also said he did not like our purposal

Well, for whatever it's worth, I strongly applaud you for this work and for coming up with viable proposals. Try to ignore the profound negativism.
As for the comments, it follows the old adage, "No good deed goes unpunished!"

 

[Forkyfinder]

I’d agree but this is also the comments a guy is getting just for volunteering to be on the fwp committee. Keep in mind he also said he did not like our purposal

That d bag was trashing the mule deer raffle too. . .

 

[cgasner1]

That d bag was trashing the mule deer raffle too. . .

I’ve never had social media I never will. This is as close as I get right here. Other members are on a lot of other platforms as I said we are not hiding I’m sure you can tell from my user name on here

 

[Visiting Hunter]

I’d agree but this is also the comments a guy is getting just for volunteering to be on the fwp committee. Keep in mind he also said he did not like our purposal

Thank you to you guys for sticking your head out, and initiating change.. Gonna be a tough crowd unfortunately.

 

[rogerthat]

I’d agree but this is also the comments a guy is getting just for volunteering to be on the fwp committee. Keep in mind he also said he did not like our purposal

It’s crazy to me what people will write on the internet. No chance most of that stuff gets said sitting at a table together or face to face.

I really want all you guys to know how much I appreciate your work on this effort. It can’t be understated. Lots of stupid comments getting thrown around but also lots of support being shown that I am seeing. You guys have my utmost respect for undertaking this on your own time energy and money probably knowing full well the fury and wrath it would incite in some people. So thanks!

 

[Carnage2011]

I’d agree but this is also the comments a guy is getting just for volunteering to be on the fwp committee. Keep in mind he also said he did not like our purposal

I was on the elk CAG, I’m well aware of what emails you may get. For every shitbag like that, you’ll get a bunch with good feedback.

 

[antlerradar]

Is there email contacts for the 9 members who created this proposal? It would be good to be transparent and share contact information so folks can discuss beyond HT or Facebook groups. Thanks!

Just about everyone of the 9 is active on HT. Use a private massage

 

[mthuntress406]

None of us are hiding by any means and I’m pretty sure you have all my contact information. I’ve had multiple phone conversations today with people that have read it on Facebook and called me

Not calling you guys out, just asking for contact information. I get why you don't want to publicly give it... I served on the elk group and got lots of hate mail. Put out controversial proposals and expect to get contacted and yes, some will be bad. There are some good things in this, but a lot I disagree with and none of it is backed with any science. Archery season will experience even more over crowding by shortening the season and I also don't see how focusing on mule deer bucks only with a rifle for a month will help the species at all.

 

[Fire_9]

Not calling you guys out, just asking for contact information. I get why you don't want to publicly give it... I served on the elk group and got lots of hate mail. Put out controversial proposals and expect to get contacted and yes, some will be bad. There are some good things in this, but a lot I disagree with and none of it is backed with any science. Archery season will experience even more over crowding by shortening the season and I also don't see how focusing on mule deer bucks only with a rifle for a month will help the species at all.

What changes would you suggest?