With all the talk this session about Wyoming and Idaho fighting bonus point bills, it's made me curious how MT's came about. I'm not finding much for info online, and I wasn't really old enough at the time to pay attention.
Was it a legislative bill? Was there as much push back?
Why the two year gap between M/S/G and D/E/A? Were they pushed through on seperate bills?
Also, as a side note to somewhat see if they help, is there anyone on the site or know of anyone that has max points for all of moose, sheep and goat? Or better yet max for those three plus max for deer and elk?
I've got a combined 40 for the five species right now, and have never drawn a moose, sheep, goat, buck or bull permit.
I was on the committee that came up with the current system. Here are answers to your questions.
Was it a legislative bill? Was there as much push back?
It was a committee that included two FWP Commissioners, some outfitters, one non-resident, rifle hunters, and archery hunters. The committee met many times over the course of a year, then prepared a proposal that went out for public comment. The comments were taken and the proposal adjusted accordingly.
Then, the legislators took the bill and it passed without any resistance.
Why the two year gap between M/S/G and D/E/A? Were they pushed through on seperate bills?
That gap was a request from the Department. They wanted to see how it went with species that did not have a lot of tags M/G/S, before jumping into the bigger numbers of elk/deer/antelope.
I think it was one bill, with stagerred implementation dates. I could be wrong, given that was a long time ago, but I think that is how it was put together.
We had statisticians come and talk to us. They made it very clear, that no kind of bonus or preference point system is going to solve the frustration hunters feel when there are 100 applicants for each tag, as is the case with sheep. Pretty much the same with goat and moose.
The best way to increase the odds of drawing those tags is to work on measure that increase tag numbers. In other words, putting more sheep on the mountain, more moose in the hills, more goats in different ranges. That is the only way to increase drawing odds.
Rather, we have legislators passing bills that take us the other direction. One should go back and look at how many ram tags we had in 1998, versus now. See what has happened in 15 years. I suspect it would show why odds are getting worse and worse.
Some other things that were discussed.
Squaring bonus points, similar to what Nevada does. This was rejected for two reasons. First, it get closer to a preference point system, rather than bonus points. And, for M/G/S, so many people are at the high point level, that squaring makes almost no statistical difference to those in that high point group.
M/G/S - Once in a lifetime. This was rejected, as many on the committee has some aspiration that they might draw two tags in their live, but mostly because it has a very small difference in the statistical outcomes. I had just drawm a goat tag and was willing to make it a Once-in-a-liftetime. Where it does have a big difference in my mind is when people hear about someone drawing a second tag, immediately after the seven-year wait and it erodes people's confidence in the system (not focused at you MTmiller
).
Elk/Deer/Antelope - Implement a seven year wait for any hunt that had draw odds of less than 10%. That would be mostly the limited entry elk tags. I wanted this, but there were a lot of gray hairs in the crowd and they did not like that idea. So, my proposal was shot down.
It must have created some good karma for me to advocate that, as I have drawn four limited entry bull elk rifle tags from 2004-2012. Under my proposed rule, upon drawing my Breaks tag in 2004 I would not have been allowed to apply again until 2012. So, I have since drawn three more tags that could have went to someone else under that idea.
Random draw for half the tags - Since point systems tend to keep younger hunters at the bottom of the pile, and possibly discourage them from even applying, it was suggested we make half the tags be subject to a random draw without regard to points. That would give young hunters a better chance and still give all of us a chance if we did not draw in the bonus point round. It died a quick death. I supported that proposal.
There were a ton of other ideas kicked around. This system was a reflecting of the committee and those who took time to comment, which was not very many people. It was tilted toward older guys who wanted to get their chance before they are planted in the pine box. It is not very favorable to younger hunters.
Hope that helps.
