Michigan Antler Point Restrictions

[bigbuckhughes]

Once again, a select group want the rest of the world to follow their ideas. Antler point restrictions should be a voluntary deal, not mandatory. Even our representative for this district is in favor of APR along with our DNR. (opinion) There are select areas in the state that have mandatory APR, now the whole state is the target

 

[woodsman]

Maryland is also looking into this. The QDMA is really making a push. They wanted 4 pts. on one side but it looks like they will only get 3 points and only one of three allowed bucks will have to meet the restriction.

 

[Bowhuntrben]

Minnesota started APR in the southeastern part of the state a few years ago. It doesn't affect the way I hunt, but I was and still am opposed to it. I have seen no improvement in the deer herd as a result of it (though I have found plenty of sub-par dead bucks while shed hunting). Currently youth are not required to meet this requirement. If they are going to continue with APR, I also think there should be an upper age where people no longer have to meet the requirement. What sucks is that broken points don't count, so if you have a deer you know is an 8 pointer that breaks off both browtines, you could end up shooting an illegal deer! The DNR has never demonstrated enough common sense for me to have faith in them making a good judgement call on a case like this.
There are just a lot of unique cases that could happen. For example, I saw a deer once that had another deer's antler busted off and wedged between his antler and head. Made him look like he had a pile of points! He had 4 points per side anyway, but it just as easily could've been a 3x3.
In the case of MN, I think a better choice would be to push the gun seasons out of the rut if they want to save a lot of the younger deer. This will never happen though.

 

[cowboy]

Antler point restrictions are one of them "feel good laws". The down side of APR is that you put 100% of the harvest pressure on the animals you are trying to promote.

I hunt in one of the first areas in Montana that went to brow tine only for elk many years ago. I initially thought it was a great idea. Now, many years later after finding more dead spikes over the years than you could count, there are literally no quality bulls and vast majority of bulls are rag horns, and they just keep passing on rag horn genes.

If you want quality you have to reduce hunting pressure through a license draw system to be effective - along with keeping predators in check.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I found out about that change up where my place is in Kalkaska County when I got back from a 3 month 5 state trip out west a few days after our 11/15 season opener. I was more than ticked because where I hunt it's so thick there is very little chance of being able to count points on a side before you wack him. I guess the next buck I shoot will have to look like a bull elk or I'll end up violating the law if I hunt like I have since I bought the place in 1973. This really is BS when they tell you what you can and can't shoot on your own property!

 

[mtmuley]

cowboy, raghorns grow up to be big bulls in time. Must be a lot of slobs where you hunt. I've never found a dead spike. I have seen some very marginal brow tines though. mtmuley

 

[cowboy]

cowboy, raghorns grow up to be big bulls in time. mtmuley

Have you ever seen a 5'8" Olympic skaters offspring play in the NFL - just ain't gonna happen. Once a rag horn - always a rag horn. That's why they cull out undesirable bucks in areas concerned with horn quality.

 

[Eric Albus]

cowboy...are you serious? if you are, there is no point....save your time mtmuley...

the only place for "culling" is behind high-fence operations. I have seen both mature and immature bucks/bulls make huge jumps in antler size.....antler growth depends on a lot of "uncontrollable condtions"...so, in the wild you never know what you are going to get.

 

[mtmuley]

Yep Eric, no point. mtmuley

 

[naturebob]

Can' shoot a big one if Ya kill all the little ones!........BOB!

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

In the case of MN, I think a better choice would be to push the gun seasons out of the rut if they want to save a lot of the younger deer. This will never happen though.

I think you are dead on here, Ben, on both assertions. MN will always manage their deer herd for opportunity, not trophies.

I think the problem with APR is that you are just delaying the harvest of a buck 1 year, instead of forks and spikes, they are shooting basket racks.

 

[brymoore]

If you look at the research PA has done on APR, you'll find it's successful for whitetails. After a few down years, harvest levels return to normal with mature deer being harvested instead of yearlings. PA also showed that APR allowed for mature bucks to breed instead of yearlings.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/deer/11949

 

[RUT JUNKEY]

not sure of the rules up there, but, here in Indiana we have been a "1 buck only" state for a few years and the amount of bigger, mature, bucks is at an all time high. We have very liberal doe harvest opportunities though. I'm not a fan of killing 10 does a year, but to each their own. I believe that if you are killing does in the late season . . .you are killing yourself out of potential twins/triplets and some of those are going to be bucks. I'm not a fan of the antler restriction at all, because a "trophy" is diffrent to everyone. . .I try to get my friends to hold out for mature bucks and most do. QDM only works if everyone on the adjacent properties is ALSO practicing it. Just my thoughts.

 

[bigbuckhughes]

Thanks for the feed back. Looks like almost 50/50 on the poll.

 

[bigbuckhughes]

Results are in on the mandatory antler point restrictions survey. 62 per cent were in favor of this for the remainder of zone 2 and 55 per cent were in favor for zone 3. The survey results had to be 66 percent before the DNR would make a recomendation to the wildlife commission for the restrictions. I'm sure the commission can do what they want regardless, but this is the way it came down.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I'll say again that I think this is BS when a bunch of people can get together and end up getting something passed that imposes an antler point restriction on what I can shoot on my own property, especially when most of the time you can't count points until you walk up to it and it's down and dead! I've had that 20 acres up in Kalkaska County since 1973 and have had deer license every year since 1963 and have yet to be asked my opinion on the subject in any survey.

 

[dustinf]

If you look at the research PA has done on APR, you'll find it's successful for whitetails. After a few down years, harvest levels return to normal with mature deer being harvested instead of yearlings. PA also showed that APR allowed for mature bucks to breed instead of yearlings.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/deer/11949

Speaking from experience, the PA restrictions absolutely work for allowing bucks to mature. I think it's only affected the kill rates of "opening day" type hunters. I also think it helped protect the heard when they allowed crossbow hunting during archery season.

The restrictions do not apply to junior hunters.

 

[shoots-straight]

Speaking from experience, the PA restrictions absolutely work for allowing bucks to mature. I think it's only affected the kill rates of "opening day" type hunters. I also think it helped protect the heard when they allowed crossbow hunting during archery season.

The restrictions do not apply to junior hunters.

Most of the research I've seen in the West showed antler restrictions in the form of points counted did not work.

Prey tell, how could adding more hunters to a segment of the population result in better protected herds?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Most of the research I've seen in the West showed antler restrictions in the form of points counted did not work.

Prey tell, how could adding more hunters to a segment of the population result in better protected herds?

***Good question for him regarding that crossbow comment that doesn't seem to make any sense!

 

[dustinf]

Most of the research I've seen in the West showed antler restrictions in the form of points counted did not work.

I have no idea, I was commenting on how it works in Pennsylvania.

Prey tell, how could adding more hunters to a segment of the population result in better protected herds?

That was poorly written on my part. The "it" in my last sentence was referring to the antler restriction, and how the antler restriction helped when they allowed crossbows.