Maybe we can’t have more hunters

Hammsolo

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Not trying to start an argument but this summer after the endurance race the mtb guys were all on Facebook patting each other on the back for leaving a minimal amount of trash on the trails throughout the race and I went out there a week later and found 4 fluorescent pink marking flags that have been there since trail construction was completed over a year ago that they apparently missed.
But to be fair if you go walk the edge of the prairie there’s all kinds of piss products laying around.

Good Lord, GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
 

TOGIE

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As an MTB guy, I agree with a lot of what you said. But, I look at how the hunting community could also be painted with the same brush.

My brother and I are diametrically opposed in regards to bikes in wilderness. We still have fun riding together.

yeah the hunting community can hugely be painted with the same brush which is why this thread exists. hunting stereotypes exist for a reason. "working class bowhunter" is what a lot more of us, probably the majority, act and look like than not i believe. it's why matt rinella is freaking twisted up over this whole thing. maybe we all should be as angry as matt?

and mtb'ers that hit the same public trail 10 minutes outside of town 90% of the time and occasionally go to moab for the other 10% and couldn't care less about whether they can take bikes in wilderness is likely 80% of mtb'ers. but they're not driving the narrative.

hunters that are conservation and ethically minded need to work harder than we do, myself hugely included. mtb'ers that value wilderness area need to show up to more public meetings, hunters need to show up to those public meetings. and i need to show up to more colorado public meetings so poor @Oak isn't the poor lonely guy in the room most of the time.

there, did manage to circle that back to our topic well enough? sorry wllm 😁
 

Longbeard70

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I’ve seen the evolution of hunting and it’s cool factor. Now I experience those that don’t know how to pursue game mess up the hunt for those who do.
 

Hammsolo

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every use group is imperfect and carries many rightful negative stereotypes.

but if the average mentality of the "avid" mountain biking community had their way every wilderness area would be dismantled, no new wilderness areas would be created, every drainage from durango to cheyenne would be filled with trails, all state wildlife areas in colorado would ultimately be opened to mountain biking year round, etc.

i've had too many arguments with too many mountain bikers i've known for over a decate about why wilderness areas don't need bikes; why existing wilderness area don't need potentially double or triple the user load of people going deeper and faster; why it's not good to oppose wilderness areas for no reason other than i want to ride my bike there, even though you've never even effing ridden your bike there before they talked about making it a wilderness area; why more trails isn't always a good thing for wildlife habitat (not they give a chit about the wildlife habitat), and why some places are better left simply as they are.

i'm sorry, the mtb community has lost my respect. i couldn't give a rats ass how much trail work they do.

Sad, I know piles of mountain bikers that don’t fit your description. I hinted in another host, but I’ll just say it. I don’t think bikes, horses, and more should be in wilderness. It should be “wild.”
 
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TOGIE

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I think I’m still just hugely sour and unable to recover from some of the opinion pieces several years ago in the newspapers I read that were written by members of the mtb community regarding CPWs reinforced/reiterated/instituted rule that you can’t access state wildlife areas without a hunting/fishing license.
 

Hammsolo

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And the Midwest.
We need more public land.
We have to start shaming jimmy John until he gives us the sangamon.
Your not wrong. A lot of hunters are slobs. But we have a lot of regulatory mechanisms to keep our impact in check. Whether or not state agencies do that is another story sadly.

But where are those regulatory mechanisms for other user groups? Largely non existent.

I can read this a few different ways, but I’ve routinely picked up boxes of Busch that were hunters. We all have the same rules around littering.

My hypothesis is that you’re talking about trails. There are loads of laws and procedures in place. Do people break them… all of them… sadly yes. The ethical and legal process of trail management is a spider web wrapped in red tape. I don’t think that is bad either.
 

COEngineer

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I think I’m still just hugely sour and unable to recover from some of the opinion pieces several years ago in the newspapers I read that were written by members of the mtb community regarding CPWs reinforced/reiterated/instituted rule that you can’t access state wildlife areas without a hunting/fishing license.
Peak baggers too. I couldn't believe the outrage at having to pay $40 for access. The non-hunters are so used to getting everything for free, the concept of pay-to-play blew their minds.
 

neffa3

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I’ve never seen a bike group advocate for anything other than trails, trails, and more trails. Pretty much one trick ponies…
This is basically the Evergreen MT Alliance moto. They give exactly 0 sh!ts about wildlife, which is why I am no longer a member.
 

neffa3

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So do hunters, equestrians, hikers, and a whole host of other public land users. Never seen any of them doing work to maintain trails. Hunttalk loves itself a self-righteous anti-cyclist circlejerk though. A bunch of Wilford Brimley looking hunters trailering up their horses with mud up past the fetlock are the epitome of rugged individualist public land users while cyclists who dedicate weekends to fixing their postholes are whiney and self-centered.
1639758553826.png
1. No mt bikers in that pic. 2. How many trails are enough?
 

Lilhowie83

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I think if you get outside of SE Wyoming you'll find Backcountry Horsemen are doing the vast majority of the volunteer trail work in Wyoming. But on the topic of SE Wyoming, when will there be enough trails to appease the mountain biking community there? All the FS trails just outside of Laramie weren't enough clearly. So they put bike trails all over Curt Gowdy. Then Glendo. Oh sorry hunters, state park rules say you can't hunt within 400 yards of a trail, not even shotgun for turkeys or archery for deer. Good luck finding a good place to hunt that's over 400 yards from a trail in those States Parks with all the new bike trails. Sure there's North Crow, but that'll be next in the crosshairs I'm sure. Then they built trails all over North Park in Cheyenne. Then you've got all the new trails on the East end of Laramie. When is enough enough?

On top of that you've got the mountain bikers that ride illegally in Wilderness. Every time I hit the Baby Lake trail in the Huston Park wilderness there's tracks from mountain bikes. I can't tell you how many mountain bikers I know that are chomping at the bit to get bikes allowed in Wilderness. I even worked with a GF biologist that wanted mountain bikes in Wilderness.

If we were to say right now, there's enough mountain bike trails in SE Wyoming, I wouldn't be nearly as salty about it. But I wouldn't count on that knowing a lot of people in the mountain biking community. My money's on them getting bored with what they have and asking for more. Call it a gripe fest against mountain bikers if that's your prerogative, but the fact of the matter is the last decade has seen a huge proliferation of new bike trails in SE Wyoming. I don't want to see that trend continue for several more decades.
I will second this. In the areas that I frequent in South East Idaho and Western Wyoming, the trails are 100% maintained by Backcountry Horsemen or individual horse people. I have never once seen a mountain biker clearing any trails.
 

neffa3

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So do hunters, equestrians, hikers, and a whole host of other public land users. Never seen any of them doing work to maintain trails. Hunttalk loves itself a self-righteous anti-cyclist circlejerk though. A bunch of Wilford Brimley looking hunters trailering up their horses with mud up past the fetlock are the epitome of rugged individualist public land users while cyclists who dedicate weekends to fixing their postholes are whiney and self-centered.
1639758991848.png
Dude, backcountry horsemen arguably maintain more trails annually than the F-in' feds do. Talk about getting off your high horse...
 

bullbugle307

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I can read this a few different ways, but I’ve routinely picked up boxes of Busch that were hunters. We all have the same rules around littering.

My hypothesis is that you’re talking about trails. There are loads of laws and procedures in place. Do people break them… all of them… sadly yes. The ethical and legal process of trail management is a spider web wrapped in red tape. I don’t think that is bad either.
I'm talking more about numbers of users and managing impact. We at least have some well managed limited quota type systems. There's very few quota type systems to keep other user groups from loving things to death.
 

wllm1313

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I'm talking more about numbers of users and managing impact. We at least have some well managed limited quota type systems. There's very few quota type systems to keep other user groups from loving things to death.
Yes and no.

There are many areas that have gone to permit area camping.

Ski areas have boundaries, and to some extent the temporal nature of that sport mitigates impact. Not a lot of elk at 12k feet in 8 feet of snow. To that end backcountry skiers aren't typically messing with animals.

Bikers stay on trails, largely.

The problem is there are crowding issues with all of these... and as much as we hate a 10 year wait on an elk tag, a 10 year wait on a float trip is just as bad.
 

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