LO Battle Ahead?

[Treeshark]

Who doesn’t love a way for those with money to always cut to the front of the line for the best hunts while the masses wait their turn

I understand this point, but the same scenario occurs with the special draw fees and it doesn’t seem to be a huge deal to people.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I understand this point, but the same scenario occurs with the special draw fees and it doesn’t seem to be a huge deal to people.

Not really.

 

[Treeshark]

Not really.

What purpose does the increased special draw fees serve?

 

[antlerradar]

It isn't meant to be math. It's increased access and opportunity to more people. I don't have any friends who own land in WY and get LO tags. I certainly don't plan to purchase land in WY just to get tags, but we'll see. Maybe I should look in to it.

I don't see any increase in access or opportunity for more people. Just changing who is hunting at best and more in likely the people paying the big bucks are going to demand that few people are hunting resulting in less access and opportunity.

 

[longtail55]

17 pages deep.........

 

[seeth07]

Who doesn’t love a way for those with money to always cut to the front of the line for the best hunts while the masses wait their turn

Honestly at this point in time, if you want to talk about "the best hunts" there is no more "waiting their turn".

For someone who just turned 18 today, if their goal was to hunt one of the top 5% elk units in a certain state - whether its as a resident or non-resident, I think in most cases there is a realistic chance that it may never happen.

In Wyoming for example, there are 92 elk draw hunts so the top 5% would be roughly 5 of them and all 5 of those carry a less than 5% resident random draw odds. Due to population increases and hunting demand in a state like Wyoming even on the resident level increasing, 18 year old Timmy shouldn't get his hopes up of ever drawing one.

 

[cgasner1]

Honestly at this point in time, if you want to talk about "the best hunts" there is no more "waiting their turn".

For someone who just turned 18 today, if their goal was to hunt one of the top 5% elk units in a certain state - whether its as a resident or non-resident, I think in most cases there is a realistic chance that it may never happen.

In Wyoming for example, there are 92 elk draw hunts so the top 5% would be roughly 5 of them and all 5 of those carry a less than 5% resident random draw odds. Due to population increases and hunting demand in a state like Wyoming even on the resident level increasing, 18 year old Timmy shouldn't get his hopes up of ever drawing one.

Taking tags from the pool for nr with money should help that

 

[Archer86]

I understand this point, but the same scenario occurs with the special draw fees and it doesn’t seem to be a huge deal to people.

I think its a bigger deal then you think as a resident of wyoming I wrote in and called multiple times against it the outfitter lobby is strong for those rich NR hunters

 

[Ben Lamb]

It isn't meant to be math. It's increased access and opportunity to more people.

Show me the math.

 

[Bighorner]

Both sides in this conversation are passionate about opportunity and the enjoyment of getting out in nature, but there is a third side. That side wants to make money. They don't give a shit if you get the tag or I get the tag. They only care that they make a dollars along the way.

Don't ever confuse WYOGA with a hunting or conservation group. They are a business group. A business group that intends to increase profit and client base year over year, decade over decade.

Your goals may align with theirs, but that's only because you have dollars they want and you are the user group.

Disagree as hunters among hunters, but this really is about hunters versus clients.

 

[seeth07]

Taking tags from the pool for nr with money should help that

I totally agree that the state should have the entire total allotment of tags for each hunt split into two groups - resident tag allocation through the random draw and then a second "money maker portion". The second portion amount of be entirely related to the dollars brought in compared to the resident fees and land likely somewhere between 5% and 25%. All of the groups and people looking for the "hand out tags" can fight amoungst themselves for them. Zero impact then on the resident population and their ability to get a tag other than whatever chances they gain or lose in the secondary allocation.

 

[cgasner1]

I totally agree that the state should have the entire total allotment of tags for each hunt split into two groups - resident tag allocation through the random draw and then a second "money maker portion". The second portion amount of be entirely related to the dollars brought in compared to the resident fees and land likely somewhere between 5% and 25%. All of the groups and people looking for the "hand out tags" can fight amoungst themselves for them. Zero impact then on the resident population and their ability to get a tag other than whatever chances they gain or lose in the secondary allocation.

The genie won’t go back in the bottle. This has the potential to make a pile of money for certain people and it will turn into everything else can be damned be it resident or wildlife. I bet if this was to go thru the first cut is nr go to 90/10 and that extra 10 goes to the highest bidder.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Zero impact then on the resident population and their ability to get a tag other than whatever chances they gain or lose in the secondary allocation.

Until you realize you're providing the incentive to shut down free public access in favor of paid for access to result in a trophy animal to be taken along with that tag.

 

[seeth07]

Until you realize you're providing the incentive to shut down free public access in favor of paid for access to result in a trophy animal to be taken along with that tag.

Reread what you quoted. I did mention that

 

[cgasner1]

Until you realize you're providing the incentive to shut down free public access in favor of paid for access to result in a trophy animal to be taken along with that tag.

This thread has changed my mind I’m even more against them now

 

[Ben Lamb]

Reread what you quoted. I did mention that

My apologies.

I would not down-play that loss of acreage. That's how you get to situations of increased hunter crowding, etc, leading to even worse outcomes for managers and the public writ large.

 

[Forkyfinder]

This thread has changed my mind I’m even more against them now

 

[seeth07]

My apologies.

I would not down-play that loss of acreage. That's how you get to situations of increased hunter crowding, etc, leading to even worse outcomes for managers and the public writ large.

It would entirely be up to how the state choses to deal with all of those groups wanting their piece of that 20% of the tags or whatever it may end up being.

You could allow 5% to go to LO as transferable vouchers and upon receiving one you agree to allow 100% year round public access for all activities. That may increase acreage for access? Unit 7 in Wyoming comes to mind where this could play out well for the resident user in that area?

 

[cgasner1]

It would entirely be up to how the state choses to deal with all of those groups wanting their piece of that 20% of the tags or whatever it may end up being.

You could allow 5% to go to LO as transferable vouchers and upon receiving one you agree to allow 100% year round public access for all activities. That may increase acreage for access? Unit 7 in Wyoming comes to mind where this could play out well for the resident user in that area?

wagonhound will give you all the access you want if you write a check they are a prime example of why this is a horrible idea. I say that as a guy that has punched a unit 7 bull tag

 

[Archer86]

In Wyoming for example, there are 92 elk draw hunts so the top 5% would be roughly 5 of them and all 5 of those carry a less than 5% resident random draw odds. Due to population increases and hunting demand in a state like Wyoming even on the resident level increasing, 18 year old Timmy shouldn't get his hopes up of ever drawing onone.

But there is always a chance in a state with a random draw . Me and my daughter drew a top 5 elk permit this year she is only 14.....so your idea to fix hard to draw tags is transferable LO tags? How does that fix anything except give someone willing to pay a pass to the front of the line?