LO Battle Ahead?

[Treeshark]

You and carp going to reimburse me for my elk points if they suddenly become massively devalued so you guys can have your LO tags

I’m interested to learn more about this: why do you feel points would become devalued if LO tags became transferable?

 

[TheTone]

I’m interested to learn more about this: why do you feel points would become devalued if LO tags became transferable?

I’d reason if landowner tags become transferable you would see a push to massively increase the amount of landowner tags; I’d guarantee those will come out of non resident quotas and not resident

 

[seeth07]

You and carp going to reimburse me for my elk points if they suddenly become massively devalued so you guys can have your LO tags that will take opportunities from those of us that went for the long term plan?

Actually this is why I support them. Not because I'm going to buy them but because it can lead to point devaluing and better odds in the draw. A LO program done correctly increases acceptance of elk/deer/etc over cattle/sheep priorities and opens the door for issuance of more tags for everyone. I'm still so far on the draw side of this and not purchasing tags outright but that day may come soon based on the trends of the last decade

 

[Treeshark]

I’d reason if landowner tags become transferable you would see a push to massively increase the amount of landowner tags; I’d guarantee those will come out of non resident quotas and not resident

I see, thanks for explaining. You may have a point, but that would be up to the state to structure their progra in such a way to not let LO tags run amok. I would expect that Wyoming would do a good job of this, they run a fairly tight ship.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Actually this is why I support them. Not because I'm going to buy them but because it can lead to point devaluing and better odds in the draw. A LO program done correctly increases acceptance of elk/deer/etc over cattle/sheep priorities and opens the door for issuance of more tags for everyone. I'm still so far on the draw side of this and not purchasing tags outright but that day may come soon based on the trends of the last decade

Those same market forces will push LO tags to higher values.

Has it become easier to draw a tag through NM game and fish since eplus, or not?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Actually this is why I support them. Not because I'm going to buy them but because it can lead to point devaluing and better odds in the draw. A LO program done correctly increases acceptance of elk/deer/etc over cattle/sheep priorities and opens the door for issuance of more tags for everyone. I'm still so far on the draw side of this and not purchasing tags outright but that day may come soon based on the trends of the last decade

Curious if you can point to a state where this has occurred? UT is one of the toughest to draw, yet they have a very robust transferable landowner tag system.

 

[seeth07]

Those same market forces will push LO tags to higher values.

Has it become easier to draw a tag through NM game and fish since eplus, or not?

When Eplus started, those vouchers weren't worth much as it was very easy to get elk tags anywhere outside of the Gila and Valles Vidal. It was the interest that mostly ruined that, not eplus. This platform and forum certainly being one of the main ones.

 

[Treeshark]

Has it become easier to draw a tag through NM game and fish since eplus, or not?

Wyoming draw has become more difficult over that timeframe, and they do not have an E-Plus program: therefore, we can deduce the absence of such a program does indeed lead to worse drawing odds right?

See how that reasoning falls apart rather quickly?

 

[seeth07]

Curious if you can point to a state where this has occurred? UT is one of the toughest to draw, yet they have a very robust transferable landowner tag system.

Utah is laughable. That is exactly how NOT to do LO tags

 

[Forkyfinder]

Utah is laughable. That is exactly how NOT to do LO tags

Once the seal is broken - you are asking for it to be a political football.

In case you hadnt noticed - NR are spectators of the losing team only in the said game.

 

[seeth07]

Once the seal is broken - you are asking for it to be a political football.

In case you hadnt noticed - NR are spectators of the losing team only in the said game.

Yes indeed, it is such a shame. Could probably count on one hand how many politians actually have a strong stance and priority on the health of habitat and wildlife

 

[Forkyfinder]

Yes indeed, it is such a shame. Could probably count on one hand how many politians actually have a strong stance and priority on the health of habitat and wildlife

All about whos got a seat at the table - or who can buy one.

I dont see you or treecarp as buyers of seats or LO tags. Apparently neither of you do as well.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Utah is laughable. That is exactly how NOT to do LO tags

What about CO, ID, NV, OR, CA or any of the other states that allow for transferable licenses/permits?

 

[cgasner1]

Curious if you can point to a state where this has occurred? UT is one of the toughest to draw, yet they have a very robust transferable landowner tag system.

Utahs lo program summed up in 1 meme

 

[antlerradar]

Actually this is why I support them. Not because I'm going to buy them but because it can lead to point devaluing and better odds in the draw. A LO program done correctly increases acceptance of elk/deer/etc over cattle/sheep priorities and opens the door for issuance of more tags for everyone. I'm still so far on the draw side of this and not purchasing tags outright but that day may come soon based on the trends of the last decade

The increase in acceptance is going to be minimal at best and the reduction in sheep/cattle is not going to happen.

 

[seeth07]

What about CO, ID, NV, OR, CA or any of the other states that allow for transferable licenses/permits?

I actually didn't know that ID, OR or CA had transferable licenses. I'm guessing it is because they might be allowed by legislation but aren't actually used by the department? Or perhaps with very strict restrictions?

NV from what I know is about along the same lines of UT. Again, poorly done.

CO as I already mentioned I would not support as it isn't being conducted in a manner which I feel fully supports the state, wildlife and habitat. So I wouldn't want to use them as a example for if there are increased herds or not as a result.

NM absolutely you can attribute the growth of the elk herds - especially in northern NM directly to the involvement landowners have taken in improvements to the landscape and furthering tolerance of elk on their lands. Many of the elk herds have doubled or tripled in the last decade.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I actually didn't know that ID, OR or CA had transferable licenses. I'm guessing it is because they might be allowed by legislation but aren't actually used by the department? Or perhaps with very strict restrictions?

NV from what I know is about along the same lines of UT. Again, poorly done.

CO as I already mentioned I would not support as it isn't being conducted in a manner which I feel fully supports the state, wildlife and habitat. So I wouldn't want to use them as a example for if there are increased herds or not as a result.

NM absolutely you can attribute the growth of the elk herds - especially in northern NM directly to the involvement landowners have taken in improvements to the landscape and furthering tolerance of elk on their lands. Many of the elk herds have doubled or tripled in the last decade.

Apologies for not being more specific in my query.

Growth of elk herds and increased hunting opportunity are two different things. I would eagerly concede that getting transferable licenses increases tolerance for wildlife by those landowners who engage in the program, but where has it helped the average resident and non-resident in terms of more licenses/permits?

 

[seeth07]

Apologies for not being more specific in my query.

Growth of elk herds and increased hunting opportunity are two different things. I would eagerly concede that getting transferable licenses increases tolerance for wildlife by those landowners who engage in the program, but where has it helped the average resident and non-resident in terms of more licenses/permits?

I can't dig up right now where I posted this before on this forum but I'll find the research I did on the elk license history in NM for you to look at.

 

[Treeshark]

CO as I already mentioned I would not support as it isn't being conducted in a manner which I feel fully supports the state, wildlife and habitat.

What don’t you like about Colorado’s setup? From my point of view, their’s is fairly well-structured.

 

[seeth07]

Any idea what the name of the last 50 page thread on this topic? Its probably there - or maybe one of the last 10? How many do we have in a year, it was within the last year.