Land management agency impact stories...

[SAJ-99]

Judge was pretty upset.

Judge orders Trump admin to reinstate probationary workers fired at 6 agencies

A federal judge ordered the Trump administration on Thursday to reinstate probationary workers who were let go in recent mass firings.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Judge was pretty upset.

Judge orders Trump admin to reinstate probationary workers fired at 6 agencies

A federal judge ordered the Trump administration on Thursday to reinstate probationary workers who were let go in recent mass firings.

www.foxnews.com

For good reason.

 

[sapperJ24]

Another group of folks who do important work on the land.

Forest products industry faces uncertainty amid federal funding freeze

The federal funding freeze has been having impacts on services, programs and industries across the country. And that's the same case here in Montana.

www.kpax.com

 

[hank4elk]

...and how many "Contract it out" vendors now have a uncertain year?

 

[mtmiller]

It was nice to see that Zinke got to the bottom of the FS firings….it was Biden all along. What a clown.

 

[INMT]

It was nice to see that Zinke got to the bottom of the FS firings….it was Biden all along. What a clown.

Zinke has no clue. I’ve recently hired a fired probationary USFS employee that is not going back to that agency.

Don’t believe the headlines, everyone is not being hired back.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Zinke has no clue. I’ve recently hired a fired probationary USFS employee that is not going back to that agency.

Don’t believe the headlines, everyone is not being hired back.

This is a preview of things to come, I'm afraid. As I've said, we stand to lose a generation (or more) of talent in public service. Plan on paying more for everything that gets contracted out. Every contractor I've ever known has added a zero to the end of their quote if its for the feds.

 

[BuzzH]

Probationary federal employees in Montana given temporary reprieve, Zinke says

Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke said Friday that Forest Service and National Park Service probationary workers fired earlier this year by the Trump administration will get their jobs back — at least for the time being.

dailyinterlake.com

How anyone can be that clueless is truly hard to believe.

 

[BuzzH]

Zinke has no clue. I’ve recently hired a fired probationary USFS employee that is not going back to that agency.

Don’t believe the headlines, everyone is not being hired back.

Some will make it past probationary status in the next 45 days, will be interesting to see this unfold.

But, even 45 days of pay and getting it off their records that they were fired due to performance is a positive. Will also allow them to draw unemployment and qualify for other retraining programs, priority hiring for 2 years, etc I they're riffed. Other benefits too if they're covered by NFFE.

 

[rjthehunter]

Every contractor I've ever known has added a zero to the end of their quote if its for the feds.

No. That is not remotely true. Fed work is typically bid a little higher than private work, but that's because the feds are difficult to deal with and everything takes 2x as long as it should.

A $100,000 quote is not turning in to a $1,000,000 quote.

 

[Deleted member 56631]

No. That is not remotely true. Fed work is typically bid a little higher than private work, but that's because the feds are difficult to deal with and everything takes 2x as long as it should.

A $100,000 quote is not turning in to a $1,000,000 quote.

It’s a figure of speech… get it

 

[sclancy27]

No. That is not remotely true. Fed work is typically bid a little higher than private work, but that's because the feds are difficult to deal with and everything takes 2x as long as it should.

A $100,000 quote is not turning in to a $1,000,000 quote.

I deal with contractors and bids often as a Fed engineer, it's definitely more than a little. It's also not another 0. From my experience it's anywhere from a 50-100%. Covid times really ramped up costs for contractors cause there was so much state and federal $$$ out there. Those times are over tho.

Alot of our funding for these contracts is on hold, most of USFS funding is dead in the water. I've had multiple contractors reaching out to see what jobs may be hitting this spring/summer because a ton of work has dried up. Jobs we were getting 2 maybe 3 bids on we might get 10 or more now. That industry is gonna take a beating.

 

[BuzzH]

I deal with contractors and bids often as a Fed engineer, it's definitely more than a little. It's also not another 0. From my experience it's anywhere from a 50-100%. Covid times really ramped up costs for contractors cause there was so much state and federal $$$ out there. Those times are over tho.

Alot of our funding for these contracts is on hold, most of USFS funding is dead in the water. I've had multiple contractors reaching out to see what jobs may be hitting this spring/summer because a ton of work has dried up. Jobs we were getting 2 maybe 3 bids on we might get 10 or more now. That industry is gonna take a beating.

I agree. A lot of people that think/thought DOGE was cute are now singing the blues...FAFO.

 

[rjthehunter]

I deal with contractors and bids often as a Fed engineer, it's definitely more than a little. It's also not another 0. From my experience it's anywhere from a 50-100%. Covid times really ramped up costs for contractors cause there was so much state and federal $$$ out there. Those times are over tho.

Alot of our funding for these contracts is on hold, most of USFS funding is dead in the water. I've had multiple contractors reaching out to see what jobs may be hitting this spring/summer because a ton of work has dried up. Jobs we were getting 2 maybe 3 bids on we might get 10 or more now. That industry is gonna take a beating.

I bid federal work as a contractor. It's more expensive to build right now than it has been in the past 2 years, but it's not nearly as bad as HT makes it sound. Jobs aren't costing 50-100% more. Based on what I've seen in the past 3 weeks, it's still less than a 5% increase in project values. Maybe 15% tops in fed work.

I have seen some federally funded projects put on hold. It's not enough to affect us though. This is the time of year we see more bidders on everything. Jan-Apr we always see an influx in bidders on all work scopes. That's considered normal around here.

The only material increases we've had so far is steel and lumber. As anyone in the industry knows, material is only 30-40% of construction costs. Minor increases in steel & lumber aren't making major changes in project costs. If someone has you convinced that's why they're charging you 50% more, it's probably because you're gullible and they're laughing on their way to the bank.

 

[sclancy27]

I bid federal work as a contractor. It's more expensive to build right now than it has been in the past 2 years, but it's not nearly as bad as HT makes it sound. Jobs aren't costing 50-100% more. Based on what I've seen in the past 3 weeks, it's still less than a 5% increase in project values. Maybe 15% tops in fed work.

I have seen some federally funded projects put on hold. It's not enough to affect us though. This is the time of year we see more bidders on everything. Jan-Apr we always see an influx in bidders on all work scopes. That's considered normal around here.

The only material increases we've had so far is steel and lumber. As anyone in the industry knows, material is only 30-40% of construction costs. Minor increases in steel & lumber aren't making major changes in project costs. If someone has you convinced that's why they're charging you 50% more, it's probably because you're gullible and they're laughing on their way to the bank.

Just relaying what my experience in Central and Western MT and construction projects.

I know for a fact they are laughing their way to the bank, but if they're the "lowest acceptable bid" and the managers still want the work done the contracting officer moves ahead. I would be happy if our agency never did another construction contract and we did it all in house but I have no control over that happening.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Just relaying what my experience in Central and Western MT and construction projects.

I know for a fact they are laughing their way to the bank, but if they're the "lowest acceptable bid" and the managers still want the work done the contracting officer moves ahead. I would be happy if our agency never did another construction contract and we did it all in house but I have no control over that happening.

In my 18 years experience with the feds, I see the same. For example, a modular building that I could have bought privately on the open market for 170k garnered bids ranging from 500k to 750k. It was ridiculous. When presented with the private quotes and asked if they’d like to revise their bid, they all said “nope”. And we paid it, because procurement rules are such that there’s no other option.

Or in my current job, I want to be able to contract a local person to do the dirt work for a remediation project. But over certain thresholds, I have to put it out for bids and it always goes to some “organization preferred” general contractor in California or somewhere, who then subs my local contractor anyway but adds 30% overhead.

This is not to say every contractor is bad…I have worked with some great ones. But they are the exception in my experience because the contracting rules almost incentivize bad behavior, and a lot of the shitty ones really know how to play the system.

If DOGE asked anyone in my organization where the most waste is, I think 90% of people would say contracts.

 

[Gulf of America]

In my 18 years experience with the feds, I see the same. For example, a modular building that I could have bought privately on the open market for 170k garnered bids ranging from 500k to 750k. It was ridiculous. When presented with the private quotes and asked if they’d like to revise their bid, they all said “nope”. And we paid it, because procurement rules are such that there’s no other option.

Or in my current job, I want to be able to contract a local person to do the dirt work for a remediation project. But over certain thresholds, I have to put it out for bids and it always goes to some “organization preferred” general contractor in California or somewhere, who then subs my local contractor anyway but adds 30% overhead.

This is not to say every contractor is bad…I have worked with some great ones. But they are the exception in my experience because the contracting rules almost incentivize bad behavior, and a lot of the shitty ones really know how to play the system.

If DOGE asked anyone in my organization where the most waste is, I think 90% of people would say contracts.

You just need to start covertly adding “DEI” to the text of your contracts and DOGE will sniff them out.

 

[Hunting Wife]

You just need to start covertly adding “DEI” to the text of your contracts and DOGE will sniff them out.

You tryna get me fired?

 

[Forkyfinder]

In my 18 years experience with the feds, I see the same. For example, a modular building that I could have bought privately on the open market for 170k garnered bids ranging from 500k to 750k. It was ridiculous. When presented with the private quotes and asked if they’d like to revise their bid, they all said “nope”. And we paid it, because procurement rules are such that there’s no other option.

Or in my current job, I want to be able to contract a local person to do the dirt work for a remediation project. But over certain thresholds, I have to put it out for bids and it always goes to some “organization preferred” general contractor in California or somewhere, who then subs my local contractor anyway but adds 30% overhead.

This is not to say every contractor is bad…I have worked with some great ones. But they are the exception in my experience because the contracting rules almost incentivize bad behavior, and a lot of the shitty ones really know how to play the system.

If DOGE asked anyone in my organization where the most waste is, I think 90% of people would say contracts.

@Hunting Wife how often are there change orders? Are there challenging issues regarding that?

In texas years ago, a municpality i was working with had to cancel the entire contract if COs exceeded 25 % of contract value (if i recall right). This caused some heartburn for bidders - so they just put what they thought was enough in the bid to cover the risk. Honestly the biggest problem with that - its literally a guess, not a price, and if you cant manage it you end up tossing money at it and hoping it works.

I cant believe they have you managing contracts(ing) in addition.

 

[Hunting Wife]

@Hunting Wife how often are there change orders? Are there challenging issues regarding that?

In texas years ago, a municpality i was working with had to cancel the entire contract if COs exceeded 25 % (if i recall right). This caused some heartburn for bidders - so they just put what they thought was enough in the bid to cover the risk.

I cant believe they have you managing contracts(ing) in addition.

It’s not uncommon, but since we are so rural, we don’t cancel many. Mobilization costs are already so high to get anyone out there to begin with. We do extension mods constantly.

We try to avoid contracting at all costs whenever possible. There are a few tools in the toolbox to do that but it’s not ideal.