AMK Sportsman

Indiana's Proposed rifle season . . . .

RUT JUNKEY

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I wouldn't go buy a new rifle to hunt in Indiana just yet. . . The new proposal, in a nut shell , would allow any caliber .243 and above to be used to hunt deer this fall in Indiana.
I am hearing that the DNR is not backing this plan now ( I'm sure the public/hunting community outcry/disagreement is the main reason). They are telling me that without the support of the DNR, this will more than likely get shot down on the 19th when it gets voted on. Any of my fellow Hoosiers hearing this? Thoughts on it? For or against?
(1pt may have more info on this too).
 

1_pointer

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I've heard the same thing. I think it's kinda chickenshit of the DNR. THEY are the one's how put that recommendation to the Commission and are now backing down. I think those against are in the minority, but are much more vocal than those for it. I am way for it. Doesn't make sense to allow rifles for some species and not others. That and it's much more fun to shoot a rifle and would make it much easier to outfit my kids with more effective and user friendly firearms.

I thought the state was moving in the right way with allowing suppressors and hopefully rifles. The inertia of tradition and ignorance can be quite large.
 

Muskeez

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Is Indiana currently similar to Iowa in that they only allow shotgun slugs and muzzleloaders? I don't know the terrain in Indiana, but in Iowa it varies a LOT. In the north the land is FLAT as can be and bullets travel great distances. In the southern half of the state there can be one hill after another with many trees to knock bullets down. I assume the reason we have these weapons only in Iowa is because of the flat terrain areas and keeping it safer. It would be hard to allow rifles in certain areas only, since we don't have hunt units or zones other than for NR. , although they did allow it for a few years in the bottom 2 tiers of counties for a special late season for antlerless deer.

After raising 3 kids to deer hunt I can say that they were ale to shoot a muzzleloader at a plenty early enough age, and were quite proficient with it. Having only one shot taught them patience and shot placement better than a repeating rifle in my opinion. I know when I was a kid hunting ducks and pheasants I was always a better shot on my third (last) shell than I was on my first two because I knew it was my last chance. Todays muzzleloaders IMO are essentially single shot rifles and can be loaded to fit many different people's abilities.

Another thought, what are the deer populations like? I assume they vary a lot across the state like Iowa does. Maybe you have an over population and being able to kill more deer is needed? I know around here we don't need to make it any easier to kill more deer when numbers are down already from EHD, habitat destruction, and over harvest.
This will be interesting to follow, as other Midwest states may follow in time. Lots of variables for the DNR and the residents to consider I'm sure!
 

Gr8bawana

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Why are rifles not legal? Is the entire state so densely populated that a rifle is just too dangerous?
I don't get it.
 

SFC B

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For me, the arguments against are pretty petty. The most vocal tend to be bow hunters who think that only THEY are true hunters and nobody should infringe upon their RIGHT to shoot a big buck. :/ I am itching to bring the '06 home and do some population control.
 

RUT JUNKEY

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I agree Muskeez. Here are some #'s. . . 120,073 deer harvested in 2014. . .125,635 in 2013 ( 4% decrease) Antlered deer 45,686 down 1% from 2013. Does 74,387 in 2014. . down 6% from 79,395 in 2013. The 2014 season ranks 12th all time in harvest, while the antlerless harvest ranks 10th all time, antlered ranks 18th all time. In Indiana in the past 63 seasons 3.38million deer have been taken (and reported) I'm sure these numbers are off because of the Lifetime License, call in, and electronic checking.

In Indiana right now the rule is rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357 in diameter or larger, have a minimum case lenghth of 1.16 in; and have a maximum case length of 1.8in are legal to use only during the deer firearms and special antlerless seasons. Some of those include: .357 Mag,.38-40Win, 41Mag,.41 Special, .44 Mag, .44Spec,.44-40 Win, .45 Colt,.454 Casull, .458 SOCOM (my favorite), .475 Linbaugh,.480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .500 S&W,.460 Smith, .450 Bushmaster, .35 Remington (Dads Favorite), .357 Herrett, .45 Long Colt, and the.50 Beowulf. All of this and Muzzleloaders and shotguns too. I also included the "bonus antlerless" map. . in those counties you can kill up to that # along with your regular license bundle. . .they sure add up quickly!! (also a pic of the .458 SOCOM that I built last year for hunting)
 

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Muskeez

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So, you have plenty of deer if you have extra antlerless tags available for everyone. And you can shoot them with a rifle of their specified calibers, but not other more common calibers?? That seems silly, whats the reasoning? Only slower heavier bullets allowed that will drop faster? I am no rifle/caliber guru !
 

RUT JUNKEY

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I'm not 100% sure the reasoning. . I'm sure its the ballistics and such. I don't really care either way, but, we can hunt coyotes with anything (also a vote is on the table to allow year round hunting of coyotes) and during the winter when the ground is frozen. . .I would think this would pose a little bit more of a safety concern than say a guy 25ft up in a tree shooting down at a deer. Like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight really.
 

Muskeez

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Ha! Sounds a lot like Iowa. We can hunt coyotes year round and with any weapon, including any caliber of rifle. SOME of the coyote hunters in these parts are the craziest renegade gangs you will ever run up against. SOME of them run coyotes with trucks and greyhound dogs and shoot multiple rounds from ARs across open fields. Not surprisingly we have even had some injuries and I believe a death or 2 from these activities. Kinda shoots the theory of safety in the foot doesn't it. Probably more a matter of not wanting to make it any easier than it already is to harvest more deer. And like 1 pointer said, tradition carries a lot of weight.
 

RUT JUNKEY

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I see the same thing here!! My concern is that SOME of the hunters here think they can already shoot 350 yds with an 870, so, what will they do with a 7MM Mag?? I have witnessed a guy get out of a truck and take pop shots at a giant buck in the middle of a cornfield. . .the deer runs off. . .he didn't even check to see if he hit it!! If they don't drop on a dime SOME hunters just don't bother to check. . .that irritates me and will result in dead deer that never get counted towards the year end numbers. Don't even get me started on the call in/ online check in. . .lol :D
 

1_pointer

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RJ- Answered most of the questions and provided some great info/data. IMO it's all about tradition and ignorance. It's always been a 'shotgun' state and folks can't seem to see it any other way. The recent dip in harvest numbers have folks propping up strawman arguments over the decimation of the herd as well as safety. I don't see how I can hunt coyotes and ground hogs with a centerfire rifle safely, but can't do so for deer? Likewise, farmers/landowners (or the people they designate) who get depredation permits are allowed to use centerfire rifles for that purpose, but I can't during the firearms season.

Then lets get into the current 'rifle' rule. A couple of the popular rounds that RJ left off his list are 358 Hoosier, 358 Grant and 358 WSSM. The Hoosier round is basically a 22-250 necked up to use .358" bullets. The Grant and WSSM are wildcats based off the Winchester Super Short Magnum case. Each of these is capable of pushing 200gr bullets the same speed as a 30-06 with the same weight of bullets. Some folks are getting the new 180gr TTSX up around 3000fps with these cartridges. These are perfectly legal as they meet the bullet and case length requirements, but a 243 or 308 or 270 are only legal for coyotes? Makes absolutely no sense.

PS- RJ you dad's favorite round is only legal if you trim 0.1" from the case... ;)
 

RUT JUNKEY

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1pt, you are correct on the 35. . .Dad is a reloading guru! lol. He's a huge lever action guy and it shoots very well with great results too. I guess we will see soon enough how this will all turn out. I could argue for or against the rifle season with equal vigor. . .I see both sides. . .my main concern is the overall deer herd health and numbers. . . .but I'll be hunting hard this Fall regardless of the vote.:D
 

1_pointer

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I was just joshing you a bit with the 35 Rem comment. Though it does point out the absurdity of the current rules. If folks want to hang their hat on the safety issue, the 0.1" of brass length ain't gonna cut it.

I'm in wait and see mode as well. Either way, I'm well armed. However, if the rule change happens I'll be tracking down a LH Ruger American in 243 for my son very quickly!

I agree on the main concern, but IMO neither of those are dependent upon weapon type used. IMO that's a habitat (quantity more so than quality) and harvest numbers issue, in that order. One's an easy fix, the other, not so much.
 

RUT JUNKEY

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well, it looks like things went as I thought they might. . .NO RIFLES this Fall. It was tabled and not even voted on. . . it will be back next year with some revisions I'm sure. I'm also guessing some changes with the antler less harvest will be addressed too.
 

Speeddmn

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I was just joshing you a bit with the 35 Rem comment. Though it does point out the absurdity of the current rules. If folks want to hang their hat on the safety issue, the 0.1" of brass length ain't gonna cut it.

I'm in wait and see mode as well. Either way, I'm well armed. However, if the rule change happens I'll be tracking down a LH Ruger American in 243 for my son very quickly!

I agree on the main concern, but IMO neither of those are dependent upon weapon type used. IMO that's a habitat (quantity more so than quality) and harvest numbers issue, in that order. One's an easy fix, the other, not so much.

First, I can see both sides also. I don't hunt IN, and doubtful I ever will. So best of luck!

Second, since they didn't vote on it this year, I wouldn't wait till they say yes or no before buying that rifle. A 243 will be just as good next year and would allow your son more time to be proficient with it. What's to say they decide to re-attack it and then everyone else goes out and buys like crazy.
 

RobG

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Pennsylvania has rifles and it's crazy. I was in a stand on an opener and the bullets were flying before sunup and were so consistent I counted them for 10 minutes. The average was one shot every 6 seconds!

And except for all the fatalities it hasn't caused much of a problem. :D actually, I found an article that was interesting, and it doesn't necessarily support what I just said.
This stood out however:
Despite the decline in shootings, one type of hunter has been involved in a disproportionate number of accidents - the junior hunter, according to the Inquirer analysis. A junior hunter is between 12 and 16 years old and must hunt with an adult until age 16. - See more at: http://articles.philly.com/1999-11-...-education-hunter-safety#sthash.Ygmz3pyG.dpuf

But a better case study is New York State. They switched from shotguns to rifles and hunting accidents are still trending downward. I was not expecting that, but sometimes bigger issues like self inflicted shots can swamp out the accidents were are interested in.
 

cur dog

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Rob, You must have been in Philadelphia. In my area, you might not hear 5 shots on opening day.
 

1_pointer

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well, it looks like things went as I thought they might. . .NO RIFLES this Fall. It was tabled and not even voted on. . . it will be back next year with some revisions I'm sure. I'm also guessing some changes with the antler less harvest will be addressed too.
They admitted in one press release that I read that it's a social issue that they, the DNR, are not ready to push at this time. Looks like the squeaky (bow) wheels got the grease...

If I had the money right now I'd build a 7mm Mag handgun and shoot deer with 162gr Amax bullets this year in protest. Yes, that would be legal... :rolleyes:
 
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