Idaho changes to muzzle loader, archery definitions

[T Bone]

Idaho is going traditional on the muzzleloader season. Flintlock, No 11, or musket cap, Side hammer, lead projectile, black powder, pyrodex or synthetic black powder.

No real changes for archery.

A few changes in moose, sheep, and goat seasons.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/110/story/67412.html

 

[fairchase]

Didn't you know muzzleloading hunters are wiping out Idaho's deer populations? We had better ban their action types and restrict their accessories. Hell, we'll just give away most of their tags too. Yea, those slow to load, open-sighted rifles are just unfair.

Archers, on the other hand can now use 85% let-off bows and lighter arrows down to 300 grains, so it would appear that they still need more help getting the job done.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Mike Murray of Nampa, past president of the Idaho Muzzleloaders Association, said the group has been trying since the early 1990s to get similar rule changes.

"We're happy as pigs in mud," he said.

The attraction of muzzleloader hunting is the challenge it provides and the opportunity for special seasons, including late hunts. Technology takes away some of that challenge and means fewer special seasons, he said.

I had a neighbor who used to get an elk every year with a flintlock. That takes some hunting!

 

[Big Fin]

This is interesting. NV has handled this by requiring open sights. When I hunted NV this year, I passed on a lot of nice deer that were over 150 yards. I just don't see how people can be consistently accurate beyond that with open sights. I ended up shooting a nice buck at 90 yards. Nothing close to a few of those big guys that were hanging out there further, but I think that is why they call it "limited range" weapons hunting.

I suspect that in 10 years, they will be addressing the issue again, as the manufacturers will come up with more efficient products, even with the new restrictions.

Happy Hunting!

 

[1_pointer]

I bet there are some PO'd folks in ID who've sunk big money into a new inline setup in the past few years. I bet Thompson Center is happy as a lark though, now they may move a few more of their Hawkin rifles.

 

[Oak]

I bet there are some PO'd folks in ID who've sunk big money into a new inline setup in the past few years. I bet Thompson Center is happy as a lark though, now they may move a few more of their Hawkin rifles.

That's what happened in CO. They passed the same restriction here several years ago and a bunch of folks complained about how their ML's were no longer of any use. The restriction lasted one year.

 

[1_pointer]

I wouldn't be suprised if that didn't happen in ID.

 

[GatoMan]

So basically its saying sidehammer only, no inlines, all the rest of the rules are the same..........

 

[Wapiti Wacker]

I personally like the change if it opens up more hunts,I own both types and only used my inlines in short range or general hunts anyways.I have a bad shoulder and can't really bowhunt anymore(which I loved) the new rules will force those who choose muzzleloading to be highly proficent hunters.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Real hunters use flintlocks:

"Flintlock Muzzleloader Season: Only single-barrel long-guns with a flintlock ignition system are permitted. The firearm must be an original or reproduction of a gun used prior to 1800, which is .44 caliber or larger, with iron, open "V" or notched sights (fiber-optic inserts are permitted). A flintlock ignition system consists of a hammer containing a naturally-occurring stone which is spring-propelled onto an iron or steel frizzen, which, in turn, creates sparks to ignite a gunpowder. Flintlock hand guns are not permitted. Flintlock muzzleloader hunters may use "any single projectile," including sabots, and mini and maxi balls."

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=465&q=151336

Technological advancements in the in-line muzzleloaders and accessories have made them as effective as centerfire rifles. I'm 100% against allowing them to be used in muzzleloader seasons. We all know they've been nothing but a way to get around the spirit of muzzleloader hunting.

 

[Dinkshooter]

I think in Colorado someone/some company filed a law suit over it and got the restriction removed???

 

[Ithaca 37]

So if I were the F&G commisssion I'd give the in-line guys a season about a weekend long and then have a good season for the real muzzleloaders.

 

[Moosie]

Ithica, thats BS. Take the muzz guys that dress up and play Retro hunters. Most of those clowns and Outshoot 80% of people shooting inlines. Alot of it is knowing your gun, not the gun itself.

Next you'll be fighting for Bows only, then Recurves only..... Where is the Spear Season ? I want to kill a Animal with a spear !!

Tell the "REAL" muzz shooters to wear their loin cloth in the field instead of gortex, etc. they are as bad as the Indians around here.

 

[fairchase]

There’s a reason Idaho hunters have been loosing their muzzleloader hunting opportunities and it's not because inline rifles already restricted to open sights, loose powder, using only percussion caps open to the weather and bore sized all lead conical bullets are too effective. It's because the small group of traditionalist in southern Idaho have a true disgust for any muzzleloading hunter who goes afield and doesn’t want to play the reenactment game, with a rifle that fits their version of a period correct weapon.
Don't for a minute believe his ruling will open-up new great trophy hunts because the vocal traditionalists in Idaho are more than happy driving their truck out and popping the first doe they see within 100 yards of the road. By enlarge, they are meat hunters not trophy hunters, so as you have seen with this ruling IDF&G will give them what they want and that's more meat hunts, that's it. Also, this newest muzzloader action-type restriction will just give them a better guarantee that they're left alone, to do their type of "traditional" hunt.

Fair warning; all it takes is a small vocal group to decide that they dislike your type of hunting weapon or harvest method and it's all over for you too.

 

[Muley Crazy]

I think it will open up more hunts !!!! I own a inline and enjoy hunting with it, but if shooting a side hammer gives me a chance to blow smoke at 30 inch mulies IM IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or should I say Hammer down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ithaca 37]

Real hunters use atlatls: http://www.atlatl.com/

If the in-lines with all the other high tech accessories aren't easier to use and more accurate why do guys swith to that stuff?

Here's some stuff about in-lines and the new high tech improvements.

http://mlhunter.com/prod01_rifleguide1.htm

and: "So what caused Colorado to temporarily ban in-lines for special black-powder-only big game seasons? It was the perceived and real assessment in-line hunters had removed much of the handicap attending front-loaded rifles. In-lines looked so up-to-date you had to check for a ramrod to be sure it was a muzzleloader.

Certainly Kit Carson had no such rifle. Along with perception, there was truth in advertising. The gun companies advertised in-line rifles as better than old for hunting. In many ways this was true. They carried like a modern rifle via a sling. A sling on a handsome rendition of a Pennsylvania long rifle would look like a toilet plunger hat on a pretty girl. Carrying was only part of the story. As much as I admire my .54-caliber ball-shooter, I admit a modern muzzleloader would have gotten me a 350-class bull elk at 12 paces one afternoon in Colorado.

Instead of boom! the rifle went "fttttt!" It had been raining all week. I took special care to waterproof, but it wasn't good enough. I promise were I carrying a Thompson/Center Omega, Encore or Markesbery .54, that bull would have hit the ground like a 900-pound sack of potatoes. Modern muzzleloaders are generally far better in wet weather than old-timers. There is also, the convenience of pellets. Pellets aren't impossible in older designs, but they're not intended for sidelocks. Pop pellets down followed by a bullet and have at it. Fast. simple, efficient. The Triple Seven Pellet offers another big plus--after-shooting cleanup is fast and simple, faster and simpler than anything I shoot in my old-style guns. I can clean a rifle fired with Triple Seven in the same time it takes to properly care for my .30-06--especially if the latter requires removal of copper fouling. In one recent whitetail camp down south only one shooter had "loose powder." That would be me. Every other hunter in camp used pellets."

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_8_52/ai_n16498984/pg_1

Take a look at this beauty! http://www.ultimatefirearms.com/modelsprices.htm

 

[T Bone]

I can't see the reasoning with the side hammer definition. Whats the difference between an inline with a No 11 cap, pyrodex, and maxi-ball and a side hammer loaded with the same?

I can see the reasoning with no scopes, no sabots.

That being said, no matter the limitations placed on archery or any weapon hunts, i'd still hunt.

If anyone wants to sell a T/C Omega on the cheap let me know.

 

[Moosie]

I think it will open up more hunts !!!

thats BS. It will make no difference. There is no proof that Fish and Game have that it will make a Lick of difference. I personally talked with Compton the beginning of last year and he said the Hide wearing waco's (OK, he called them traditionalists, notice no quotes ) were the ones with the biggest comments. Personally I couldn't care one way or another, but to think that it will make a difference..... please. I also can see guys pushing the limits of the side hammer uns and now we'll have more wounded animals. It happens with all weapons grant it and not just traditional ones but to think it will make more opportunities for bigger deer ? Lay off the Traditional pipe !!

 

[Wapiti Wacker]

I'm not a "hide wearing waco" but do like hunting with my traditional ML'S.The group I hunt with are also guys who hunt with bows ,and we all enjoy the challenge of closing the distance.The implication that now there will be more wounded animals is the BS part.If a guy wants to shoot a rifle with a scope and ballistics as good or better than a 30-30 then hunt with a centerfire and quit sniveling like a little:BLEEP:

 

[1_pointer]

I can't see the reasoning with the side hammer definition. Whats the difference between an inline with a No 11 cap, pyrodex, and maxi-ball and a side hammer loaded with the same?

I agree. IIRC the Longhunters Society, sorta the muzzleloading B&C, accepts trophies taken with inlines because of their invention sometime in the 1800's.