Idaho changes to muzzle loader, archery definitions
- Thread starter T Bone
- Start date
wilecoyote76
New member
Pretty soon IDF&G is going to not only make you shoot traditional styles (as stated above) but they are going to make you start hunting in loin cloths or what not! 
I think it would be cool to come across someone dressed like characters in Last of the Mohicans!
I think it would be cool to come across someone dressed like characters in Last of the Mohicans!Washington Hunter
Well-known member
I don't think there's any difference between an inline and a sidelock as far as shooting/killing ability. But there are advantages to the inlines that make them more user friendly. Most of them have a sealed breech so there's no chance of water getting in through there and getting the powder wet. And they can be easier to clean, depending on the particular model. But most inlines have a removable breech plug so cleaning is simplified, and I kind of like being able to look down the bore and see that it's clean.
I have both types of muzzleloaders. The sidelock is a stainless Lyman Deer Hunter in 54 caliber with a fast twist that shoots long, heavy conical bullets well. My inline is a Thompsen/Center Black Diamond XR 50 caliber. It's just about the same gun as the T/C Omega, but the Black Diamond has an open breech, which meets Washington's requirement that the nipple be "exposed to the elements." With both of these guns I'd be comfortable with shooting 100 yards at game, but no further. The inline sure doesn't give me any additional range. If I practiced more I could stretch either gun to about 125 yards if I had to, but I really don't see how the inline would do any better.
I have both types of muzzleloaders. The sidelock is a stainless Lyman Deer Hunter in 54 caliber with a fast twist that shoots long, heavy conical bullets well. My inline is a Thompsen/Center Black Diamond XR 50 caliber. It's just about the same gun as the T/C Omega, but the Black Diamond has an open breech, which meets Washington's requirement that the nipple be "exposed to the elements." With both of these guns I'd be comfortable with shooting 100 yards at game, but no further. The inline sure doesn't give me any additional range. If I practiced more I could stretch either gun to about 125 yards if I had to, but I really don't see how the inline would do any better.
Nut
New member
I've been reading about inlines vs sidelocks since I have been online. Nothing ever changes except who whines the loudest.
If the in-lines with all the other high tech accessories aren't easier to use and more accurate why do guys swith to that stuff?
Like it was stated above because they're easier to carry all day and they're a little easier to clean due to the removable breech plug.
No high tech accessories involved.
Personally, I have scoped ultra modern muzz rifles, I have sidelocks and every setup in between. I have never shot an animal past 120 yds...and oh, I did that with a traditional rifle.
Like it was stated above because they're easier to carry all day and they're a little easier to clean due to the removable breech plug.
No high tech accessories involved.
Personally, I have scoped ultra modern muzz rifles, I have sidelocks and every setup in between. I have never shot an animal past 120 yds...and oh, I did that with a traditional rifle.
Ithaca 37
New member
Maybe you guys didn't take a look at the link I provided above:
"Powerful
The BP Xpress is second to none in accuracy and long range capability. It is the only muzzleloading rifle on the market that can be fired and burn 200 grains of Pyrodex Pellets (four 50 grain pellets). The rifle will fire a 300 grain bullet at speeds approaching 2400 feet per second (fps).
Accurate
In the hands of a capable marksman, the BP Xpress has fired 5 shot groups of one half inch at 100 yards and 3.75" at 500 yards. This rifle has been used with great success on big game from brown bears in the Yukon and Alaska to cape buffalo on the plains of South Africa. Check out our detailed ballistics page containing data from our recommended, Fury Bullet."
Does that sound like a primitive weapon to you guys?
"Powerful
The BP Xpress is second to none in accuracy and long range capability. It is the only muzzleloading rifle on the market that can be fired and burn 200 grains of Pyrodex Pellets (four 50 grain pellets). The rifle will fire a 300 grain bullet at speeds approaching 2400 feet per second (fps).
Accurate
In the hands of a capable marksman, the BP Xpress has fired 5 shot groups of one half inch at 100 yards and 3.75" at 500 yards. This rifle has been used with great success on big game from brown bears in the Yukon and Alaska to cape buffalo on the plains of South Africa. Check out our detailed ballistics page containing data from our recommended, Fury Bullet."
Does that sound like a primitive weapon to you guys?
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
No, but Ithaca, there are other restrictions that would make that type of gun illegal, besides allowing only sidelock muzzleloaders. For instance, the rule that requires a bullet that is all lead. With a muzzle velocity of 2400 fps, a copper jacketed bullet would be required. With a pure lead bullet, muzzle velocity will need to be well under 2000 fps.
Also, with open sights, shooting much beyond 100 yards, or maybe 150 yards if a guy is really good, is pretty difficult.
I'm not trying to argue against the new muzzleloader rules. Just saying that in reality a sidelock muzzleloader is not any less effective at killing game.
Ithaca 37,
I think your confused, Idaho already had a ban on every aspect of your Ultimate example.
An inline rifle that is open to the weather and has had the scope, palletized powder, 209 ignition, sabots and copper jacketed bullets already removed from the equation is what you should be comparing to a sidelock that meets the same criteria. There's Very little difference between those guns except the length and weight of the rifle and the removable breech plug, and those two differences don't have any bearing on a rifles accuracy or effective range.
Given the restrictions already in place it would be a more effective management tool to outlaw rangefinders during muzzloader seasons...hey, I guess there’s always next year.
I think your confused, Idaho already had a ban on every aspect of your Ultimate example.
An inline rifle that is open to the weather and has had the scope, palletized powder, 209 ignition, sabots and copper jacketed bullets already removed from the equation is what you should be comparing to a sidelock that meets the same criteria. There's Very little difference between those guns except the length and weight of the rifle and the removable breech plug, and those two differences don't have any bearing on a rifles accuracy or effective range.
Given the restrictions already in place it would be a more effective management tool to outlaw rangefinders during muzzloader seasons...hey, I guess there’s always next year.
The article says that 4000 people responded to the IDF&G survey, and 48 percent (1,920) supported the change to allow sidelocks only. It seems that there would be more than 4,000 hunter in ID with an interest in this topic, doesn't it? And how big is this Idaho Muzzleloaders Association? If they are 1,920 members strong, that's a pretty good membership base for a local organization.
what would you call it?
i call it a muzzleloader and a sales pitch.
you guys thinking that someone has created these magical muzzleloaders is rediculous, the barrel is a straight tube where the charge and projectile is stuffed down the barrel and self contained in the barrel just like every other muzzleloader....when that changes, let me know.
inlines are more reliable when it comes to igniting the powder but thats about it.
i have a 45 cal t/c hawkens that shoots pretty damned accurate....just as accurate as my encore.
why can the BP express use 200 gr.s of powder or the savage use smokeless powder?....simple, the barrels are the same as used for centerfire rifles and can handle the higher pressures. it would be pretty easy to make one with a side hammer.
control game populations by limits and season lengths not by which type of weapon to use.......quit your bitching, i dont care how you hunt, throw rocks at them if you want!
dont blame your own lack of success in the field on someone else's equipment or how someone else hunts.
i bet most of the guys who wear the buckskin leather get-ups and go out there with their flint-lock are wearing bra's and panties under that stuff....... lil sick bastards, i tell ya!
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
With the two that I have, I wouldn't say either one is "easier," just different, and the only real difference is in the way they are cleaned. The "traditional" is simpler, in that all I have to do is remove one pin to remove the barrel. The inline is more complicated. I have to remove the barrel first, and then the "bolt," and then with a tool, remove the breech plug. Once that's done, cleaning is simple. Some of the other inlines are easier than mine to clean, like the T/C Omega and the Encore. But, those wouldn't be legal in Washington, as they have a sealed breech.
Muley Crazy
Member
Hey Moaney !!I mean Mooise are you going to eat your words when the Regs come out!!
like I said I "think" it would open up more hunts. I guess we will wait and see By way of bigger deer I mean if they give us 1 more controlled hunt in the rut the odds of harvesting a big deer are better then they were the year before.
But from the looks for the buck you shot this year I can see why your not to worried about that! hahaha
Just giveing you a hard time I know you only had 1 day to hunt
are you going to eat your words when the Regs come out!! like I said I "think" it would open up more hunts. I guess we will wait and see
By way of bigger deer I mean if they give us 1 more controlled hunt in the rut the odds of harvesting a big deer are better then they were the year before. But from the looks for the buck you shot this year I can see why your not to worried about that! hahaha
Just giveing you a hard time I know you only had 1 day to hunt
If an inline and a sidelock are loaded the same, there is very little difference in the 2, except for the aformentioned less weight, and easier handling characteristics of the in line. Yes, Idaho could have simply said no sabots, no shotgun primers and no pellet powder, rather than ban in-lines. However, from an enforcement standpoint, the only effective way to tell if someone is legal is to pull the load. With the ban on inlines, enforcement is now a matter of looking throught the binos or spotting scope to tell if the hunter has a legal muzz or the dreaded in-line.
Some of the better muzz hunts in Idaho were already limited to "traditional weapons only".
If the change was done in the name of more opportunity lets hold them to it. I really enjoyed the last muzz hunt I was on, even though I did not harvest (traditional hunt).
Some of the better muzz hunts in Idaho were already limited to "traditional weapons only".
If the change was done in the name of more opportunity lets hold them to it. I really enjoyed the last muzz hunt I was on, even though I did not harvest (traditional hunt).
Idaho Ron
New member
Some inlines will still be legal. In fact nothing was really changed
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/apps/releases/view.cfm?NewsID=3668
I think they should have went with the side lock rule. It looks like the buckskin crowd are not the only cry babies.
For years the only hunts were in northern Idaho. They were late whitetail hunts. Then the northern Idaho cry babies stopped the southern hunters from shooting their deer.
What the problem is, is finding a place to put muzzleloader hunts. No matter where we want to hunt a season is already there. The hunters that are now using it will bitch about loosing a hunt. Heaven forbid that archery hunters give up 1 unit to a muzzleloader. We can't get a early season elk hunt for bulls because we can't take a hunt away from the archers.
If we have a late season hunt it will take away from the rifle men.
We have a rotating muzzleloader hunt in region 4. A couple of years ago we had a late buck hunt for muzzleloaders in unit 54. It was removed from that area and 100 extra rifle hunts were added. Why not leave the muzzleloader hunt in place? Why not look for additional hunts in other areas?
The season Scoping time is near. I will be sending some ideas for seasons. If you want good hunts don't expect F&G to look for them for you. Tell them what you want and let your voice be heard. If you want to muzzleloader hunt you better say something to them about what you want. Ron
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/apps/releases/view.cfm?NewsID=3668
I think they should have went with the side lock rule. It looks like the buckskin crowd are not the only cry babies.
For years the only hunts were in northern Idaho. They were late whitetail hunts. Then the northern Idaho cry babies stopped the southern hunters from shooting their deer.
What the problem is, is finding a place to put muzzleloader hunts. No matter where we want to hunt a season is already there. The hunters that are now using it will bitch about loosing a hunt. Heaven forbid that archery hunters give up 1 unit to a muzzleloader. We can't get a early season elk hunt for bulls because we can't take a hunt away from the archers.
If we have a late season hunt it will take away from the rifle men.
We have a rotating muzzleloader hunt in region 4. A couple of years ago we had a late buck hunt for muzzleloaders in unit 54. It was removed from that area and 100 extra rifle hunts were added. Why not leave the muzzleloader hunt in place? Why not look for additional hunts in other areas?
The season Scoping time is near. I will be sending some ideas for seasons. If you want good hunts don't expect F&G to look for them for you. Tell them what you want and let your voice be heard. If you want to muzzleloader hunt you better say something to them about what you want. Ron
Why do hunts have to be given up? Just restrict the numbers of tags per hunt. IMO, one hurdle for the ML crowd are the adds and TV shows touting how similar ML's are to rifles. Harder to get special seasons with the 'handicap' of the past now gone.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Idaho Ron
New member
Idaho Ron
New member
here is another.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=65080576
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=65080576
Any of the T/C Contenders or Encores will have exposed hammers. Also the Rossi and H&R Handi-Rifles. My dad used to have a scout, pretty nice ML. Cabelas has one that is very similar. I personally like the hammers, even though mine doesn't have one (Knight Wolverine)
