Hyalite now closed to recreational shooting (MT)

[RobG]

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/custergallatin/news-events/?cid=FSEPRD494025

Hyalite Canyon is a heavily used drainage south of Bozeman, MT. My family recreates a lot up there, including target practice. My wife likes to cross country ski up there in the winter. The scenery is spectacular.

They are closing down the drainage to target shooting, probably for good. This is sad, but you can go up there at times and hear extended semi-automatic gunfire coming from multiple places. It's basically a giant firing range surrounding one of the most heavily used family camping/hiking area in the state.

At the end of most logging roads you can find a fire ring full of half melted beer cans and broken bottles, boxes of spent shells, targets and clay pigeons. The trees are full of holes from shooters. I'm far more tolerant of this sort of thing than most people, but after a while it even gets to me. The idiots use their damn guns to cut down trees.There was a rule that you couldn't shoot within 1/2 mile of the road but nobody follows it and the illegal activity is so pervasive that the law can't be enforced.

My wife has had problems with idiots shooting across the trail she was skiing on. Just a few minutes ago my wife was telling me about this morning's trip starting at Moser Creek trailhead. There were piles of empty casings, ammo boxes, and broken clay pigeons right by the trailhead.

Then she opened her Facebook and saw the drainage will be closed down entirely for a year (hunting will still be allowed). (http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/custergallatin/news-events/?cid=FSEPRD494025)

There is an all-to-large portion of gun owners that think they are doing their cause a favor by being obnoxious with their guns, whether it be parading around malls with them slung over their shoulder or incessant shooting within earshot of a family campground. Nope, at least around Bozeman you just f**ked yourself out of a place to shoot. It won't be long before the other drainages are closed too.

 

[BuzzH]

Exactly why a membership to an organized shooting range is worth every single penny.

The one problem with closing these areas is that the idiots/pigs will just move to the next area that is open and ruin it too.

Then they will whine that the heavy handed FS and BLM are closing off "their" lands and over-reaching.

There's areas like this near every single population center on the nearest public land. Some people are absolutely clueless and pigs to boot.

 

[RobG]

Exactly why a membership to an organized shooting range is worth every single penny.

The one problem with closing these areas is that the idiots/pigs will just move to the next area that is open and ruin it too.

Then they will whine that the heavy handed FS and BLM are closing off "their" lands and over-reaching.

There's areas like this near every single population center on the nearest public land. Some people are absolutely clueless and pigs to boot.

There's a nice shooting range close by out at Logan - but only NRA members are allowed.

 

[Lawnboy]

The pigs did it to themselves. No picking up brass or pulling targets. shooting TV's, dishwashers etc.... Idiots.

I was riding my horse back down Lick creek and almost to the bottom and could hear someone shooting. I had one little bend before a long straight away so I got off to just see. Sure enough as I rounded the bend 2 college kids were shooting up the logging road into the hillside that the bend in the road made. I started yelling so I wouldn't get shot. When I got to them they said they didn't think anyone was up here. I said shooting up a road was a bad Idea. Lots of folks ride bike loops or or run those roads. Crazy.

As Buzz said they will go do it at the next spot. Even the gun range lately is having issues with people not pulling targets.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I can't say I'm surprised, and as much as that canyon gets recreational traffic these days, it's probably for the best.

 

[HSi-ESi]

It's been a long time coming - but like everyone has said, it'll just move the problem along. The safety hazard was just too great with the trail use up Hyalite. It was only a matter of time before there was an accident.

Some folks just won't learn.

 

[BeartoothFront]

Can't say I didn't see that coming. Just driving up Moser theres crap all over the place. How hard is it to pick up after yourself? As stated before every turn out theres a fire ring with beer cans and trash in it. No wonder they're shutting that down.

 

[Hem]

Best thing to happen for Hyalite. I want Bozeman to feel safe up there, so they don't go elsewhere.What a daily $hitshow .

 

[Nameless Range]

Probably for the best.

I am not a member of a shooting range, and pretty much do all my shooting on public lands, though I do not do so in a popular area nor near a population center.

The same thing recently happened in the Elkhorns on Warm Springs Rd just past the Strawberry Mtn Lookout. A couple years ago I was driving home that way and there is a part where the road makes an S curve. In the middle of the S and shooting toward the road near the end of the S some dude was out shooting with his AR. I wanted to continue driving, but didn't dare pass him as I would be in his line of fire. I honked and hollered but between his ear protection and shooting he didn't hear me for 5 minutes. Afterward I gave him a piece of my mind and continued on to find a bicyclist entering the tip of that S curve in the direction he was shooting. I warned him, and he said that a whole bunch of people were having talks with the forest service about it.

A year later the signs and fence were up. Some people need to be protected from themselves.

 

[Nameless Range]

One other thought about clay pigeons.

Maybe it is a cultural thing but my whole life it has seemed largely acceptable to leave clay pigeon fragments on public lands. They say biodegradable on the box, but in dry climates I know they last at least two years. I know there are "tread lightly" campaigns out there for shooters to clean up their pigeon fragments, but personally when I am in areas where locals also shoot, I am not bothered by the temporary litter of clay pigeons, and they seem as much a part of the landscape as elk chit.

I doubt the non-shooting public, and even many of the shooting public feels that way.

 

[Hunting Wife]

My family lives is Southern Oregon, and we went and visited this past fall to hunt quail with my grandfather. I grew up there, and so during our outings we drove through all the old country we used to roam when I was a kid. I was shocked and disgusted by what has happened to the place. Every pull out, flat spot, landing, gravel pit and old road is littered with bottles, cans, plastic jugs, tvs, refrigerators, couches, and just plain garbage. And of course probably what amounts to tons of brass. I can't even describe the way it made me feel to see the place looking like that. And it was EVERYWHERE. It really felt more like a landfill than National Forest. It was way worse than I remember Hyalite looking, but I haven't been there for several years now. If Hyalite was starting to look like that, I'm glad they closed it. What the hell is wrong with people?

 

[noharleyyet]

There's a nice shooting range close by out at Logan - but only NRA members are allowed.

Can you bring your ATV......

 

[----]

Honestly I'm surprised it was still open. I've never seen an area outside of a National Park get so much recreation (and for good reason). You'd have to be nuts to shoot up there.

 

[RobG]

One other thought about clay pigeons.

Maybe it is a cultural thing but my whole life it has seemed largely acceptable to leave clay pigeon fragments on public lands. They say biodegradable on the box, but in dry climates I know they last at least two years. I know there are "tread lightly" campaigns out there for shooters to clean up their pigeon fragments, but personally when I am in areas where locals also shoot, I am not bothered by the temporary litter of clay pigeons, and they seem as much a part of the landscape as elk chit.

I doubt the non-shooting public, and even many of the shooting public feels that way.

I doubt if they would care much if they weren't so visible from being painted orange.

 

[HighDesertSage]

We had the same thing happen to an area up the road when we were living in Monument, CO. I thought this was a good thing that the FS closed the area to shooting. People where absolute slobs, leaving garbage everywhere, mowing down trees, shooting towards the road, I am amazed it took them as long as it did to close it.

http://gazette.com/forest-service-bans-recreational-shooting-in-mount-herman-area/article/1522624

They even had a guy die from a stray bullet:

http://www.krdo.com/news/camper-killed-by-stray-bullet-reportedly-from-monument/34016032

Of course your should of heard all of the people whining about government/FS overreach and abuse of power. But you know what, these shooters up there where slobs and the abuse was sickening.

 

[RobG]

Honestly I'm surprised it was still open. I've never seen an area outside of a National Park get so much recreation (and for good reason). You'd have to be nuts to shoot up there.

I think it also helps if you are drunk.

It will probably spread to the other drainages eventually. Last fall I was enjoying the peace up New World when I started hearing the rapid fire of a semi-auto making its way up the trail. The guy stopped just below me and shot several rounds into a tree with his pistol. I felt unsafe and didn't enjoy the senseless noise.

The NRA could do a lot to make this situation better. They could organize cleanups like Trout Unlimited does and they could open up their range so people have a place to shoot. (I think the local hikers organize the cleanups up the canyon - the NRA should be embarrassed). They could promote responsible gun use instead of working on legislation to stop these closures. Instead, they will probably blame it on Obama and Hillary so they can get more money.

 

[beginnerhunter]

That's really sad. Your wildlife agencies should set up ranges that are monitored. Here in AR we have ranges that have well established rules about when to check targets, handle weapons, etc. It's $3. The 3D and bag target archery ranges are free. I don't notice many people abusing the federal forests like u guys have. But there may be a cultural aspect I don't understand out west. We also have more private land here for people who like that kind of dickassery.

 

[Big Fin]

I agree that it was well past the time to close it. I suspect the bitching will start as soon as the snow melts. I struggle to see that mess being the responsibility of the NRA. It is idiotic people who did the trash dumping, not the NRA. I would go so far as to opine that if not for the NRA providing a lot of grants to other shooting facilities, there would have been more people up there shooting.

And I know some are going to complain about having to be an NRA member to join our local shooting range. It is not open to all NRA members, only NRA members that also pay the $40 (?) per year for a membership fee. It is just part of the governance rules that any non-governmental group can decide among themselves. The NRA has helped put a lot of money into that facility. When MT was going to give some grants to the range about ten years ago, the NRA requirement was brought up. The state withdrew the grant, which is appropriate, as state money should not be used to improve a facility that has that requirement. As a result, range members raised the money among themselves. In the fall, the facility is opened to the public, for free, as sight-in days on weekends prior to antelope and big game season. A lot of members volunteer to staff the facility on those weekends when they could be out hunting.

I wish there was a "free facility" closer to our city, but the mess up at Hyalite shows how "free facilities" are treated. I would like to see lower logistic hurdles for people to have access to a good shooting facility, but I am not sure how that gets accomplished without the public trashing the place. Kind of like a lot of other "free" things in our society.

I travel the west and I see this in many places on public lands. Most every small city in the west that is near public lands has some piece of BLM or USFS lands that is trashed by irresponsible shooters. In large part, that irresponsible activity earns the reputation that some want to hang on the shooting community. Wish it was different, but the facts are what they are.

Expect the "sky is falling" cries from local legislators such as Kerry White.

 

[Dan O]

There are gun ranges around Mt that DO NOT require NRA membership. Two are the Great Falls Shooting Sports Complex north of Great Falls. It is a joint venture between the Complex and Mt FW&P. There is a yearly membership and some life members. It covers rifle, pistol, shotgun and archery ranges plus a Law Enforcement range. It sits on a section and a half of land approximately 963 acres. It takes a lot of work by the clubs and members to build and maintain such a complex of ranges.
There is a small shotgun, pistol and 500 yard rifle range located at Seeley Lake. It is also on state lease ground and is not a NRA membership required range. There is yearly dues or day use fee. Again members and board of directors maintain and improve the ranges. Both ranges mentioned here use grants from the NRA "Friends of NRA" and state grants to improve the ranges. Plus in kind donations from businesses and members.
Having yearly dues or day use fee's are minor in relationship of the facilities you get to use. Plus these facilities are used for hunters safety programs and to encourage youth shooting opportunities. It's a win win for the ethical sportsman and the dead beats will continue to do stupid things shooting up the surrounding areas and giving all gun owners a bad name.
Dan

 

[Straight Arrow]

I have complained for decades about the garbage and irresponsible shooting up Hyalite Canyon. Target shooters commonly would drag TV sets and furniture up into the forest to blast away at and leave, while calling it recreational target shooting sports.

The largest detriments and strongest arguments in opposition to firearms owners and hunters are the all too prevalent behaviors and practices of firearms owners and hunters THEMSELVES!