Hoochie mama getting old??

[sneakem]

Do you think that elk will wise up to the "hoochie mama" now that everyone and their dog is using one?

I believe they will. Its does make a very distinctive sound...I personally use a multitude of calls throughout the season...I personally don't own a "hoochie mama" and probably never will due to the limitations of the call.....

This isn't a stab at anyone that does use one...just a thought...

 

[Elkgunner]

Elk calls are for sissies that can't shoot 700 yards....

 

[OSOK]

I had the opportunity to try one once last year for the first time... Worked like a charm. Too bad the schmuck behind the smokepole couldn't shoot for chit though... I imagine that bull wisened up fairly quickly, if he has any lick of sense.

 

[MarvB]

Wasn't that the call of choice in the Schmaltz vid as well

 

[Washington Hunter]

No, I don't. I wouldn't give elk that much credit. They may be difficult to hunt at times, but they're not that intelligent.

 

[Cathunt MT]

700 yrd shots are for sissies that cant get close to them

 

[MarvB]

They are damn popular though...I was thinking about having the horn on my pickup patterned after the Hoochie just to aid my road hunting....

 

[A-con]

Marv, thats for sissys, my horn sounds like a 450" bull bugel !!! ( that way I don't waste any time calling in 380" raghorns ! )
The hoochie has one big advantage, anyone can make a decent cow sound with it, no practice needed.

 

[jerrym]

A friend of mine got a fighting cow call (Carlton I like???) and swears by it, took a nice 6X6 last year, anybody here use one? I really think it is timing and hitting a hot bull at the right time and right situation, more then the call. Jerry

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I have a couple of Carlton cow calls that work just fine, although I do not claim to be an expert. I have bulls respond and come in, and that's all that matters to me! It was a real rush that first time one came in, bugling and looking around. I can still see him - a big 6 point on one side and a heavy 3 point stump on the other. We called him "stumpy," of course, and he was the "fall back" bull if we didn't find better ones. He had a good-sized harem with him, actually. But we found better bulls, so Stumpy lives on.

 

[sneakem]

If you look back at the earlier years..60's-70's, most elk calls produced inferior unrealistic elk sounds...yet elk would still come to them. The ability to recreate these sounds has advanced over the years, producing realistic elk sounds. Yet with each advancement, elk still "wise" up with the use of those naturalistic sounds...Thus avoiding them in a part. If you really don't think its true pick up a call manufactured in the 60's and 70's and go call one in....Bet your very few come...

Why not the hoochie....the more calls there are and people that use them (due to ease of use), the more the animals hear it and associate the sound it produces with danger...Not too far of to ponder I think. Unfortunately they(hoochie mamas) all produce the same sound (pitch) so of course elk will eventually recognize it or avoid it all together...IMO It does produce a good sound and I won't take that away from it...

Any of the fighting cow calls can produce numerous elk sounds and are very good IMO. A person can also get very seasoned on a diaphragm and get the same results. Other sounds at appropriate times of year can produce..like rattling antlers in the pre-rut, or "glunking" on a grunt tube in full-rut. Lots of natural sounds or calls can be used as well....

 

[Cathunt MT]

I have heard alot of elk make some....lets say non elk like sounds that I thought were other hunters that messed up but turned out to be elk...with that said how many of you have called in a bull and had it bust you but you keep calling only to get him to come back to you over and over again. I called a elk back 4 times with the same call and i hunt in the same area every year and call elk in every year with the same call. I dont think they remember year after year...They are so jacked up that time of year if you sound hot they will come hump hump hump

 

[sneakem]

They can talk it up...some wierd crap too....But I'd be willing to bet either the elk don't get hunted that hard or they were younger bulls just being dumb and lookin for a piece...In some units close to my home the elk won't even call unless it pitch black outside...might have one or two sneak in quietly from time to time....but if the call is put to use over and over they will learn....

 

[Elkgunner]

Sneakem,

Do you really think that animals/species can become conditioned to a specific sound? For that to happen, each generation would have to pass along the knowledge of a Hoochie Mama sound to the next generation of elk. And how would they be able to simulate the sound to teach the next generation?

I think there might be more merit to animals that are more vocal getting killed, resulting in less vocal animals to pass along their genetics.

 

[sneakem]

Animals are born without knowledge of danger but the do mimic their parent behavior though adolesence..Thats how they learn to fear predators...and predator associated sounds and scents, humans also being a predator, along with many others. If they grow watching their parents avoid that type of sound, they will too, as future generations will most likely too. Yes, over time if their is no association with danger animals will forget(look at the animals in national parks)...no association with fear will "dumb" an animal up...and over use of calls in association with human contact as a predator will make an animal fear you...not too far fetched I think.

They can remember to run like he!! when they smell you, why not when they associate a sound (the call) with you.

 

[Elkgunner]

I agree that they will learn to run from calling, and will learn to do so by mimicking the rest of the herd. I am just not sure that they can specifically identify a Hoochie Mama and pass along the "run" response to that call, and not to other calls.

I think Bugling can become overused, and bulls that are vocal are weeded out of the gene pool, resulting in less effectiveness of bugles.

 

[sneakem]

Elk nautrally distinguish between sounds...many variations of the basic cow call can mean different things..... Whines, growl, barking mixed in a basic sound (cow call). There are lost cow calls, calf calls, frustration calls, gathering calls, alarm barks etc. that basically model the simplistic cow call only slightly varied(pitch, rasp), that can have a totally different effect on how the elk react to it. Therefore since the call produces the exact same sound as every other one I don't see it being that unrealistic that they won't recognize the sound...as they do distinguish between many sounds already...

In many years of calling elk I have watched elk grow accustomed to the sounds of certain calls...and less wary of others that produce the same basic sound just a different pitch. That is why I always carry many different types of calls. I also make slight modifications to the mylar reed and or diaphragm to produce slightly different pitches. A slight change in tone is all it takes sometimes, to get a stubborn head to turn your way..

 

[schmalts]

2 years in a row for me that it worked like a charm. I will make it 3 this year i hope.

 

[Washington Hunter]

schmalts, Don't let any get away. We can't have them educating the others.

 

[schmalts]

hell I am on my 3rd one!! if you ever get to hunt with me it is entertaining to see how much shit i lose on one hunt!! lets see, last year was a hoochie, a carlton, my garmin GPS, a glove, hell i cant keep track of my stuff on a hillside.