Here's why elk ranches should be illegal in every state

[MarvB]

Tom....unlike and unfortunately for the parents of a few on here....being too drunk to drive doesn't necessarily mean your too drunk to breed!


...I'm talking about the red deer that is.....

 

[280]

Tom you don`t seem to understand, we want our pure Rocky Mountain elk, unlike you Texans were if you could get a zebra to cross with a whitetail and SCI would score it y`all would be happy

 

[Tom]

280, I understand you want that and I hope you would shoot any crossbreeds, so they wouldn't further breed, would you? Or, are you happy to leave that task to someone else?

You keep coming up with delutions, why? Like where did the idea that someone would like to cross a zebra with a whitetail come from? Is that something they are working on in your part of the woods?

 

[280]

the idea came after seeing the 4h project you shot, you know the cross bred cow, you Texans like the exotic specie, and yes I would shoot his escaped red deer/elk, coyotes and magpies need to eat also

 

[Excaliber]

I didn't read all the posts here on this topic but the Elk that escaped and were killed (36 of them)"suposedly" all tested negative for CWD and red Deer genes.
If people want to kill Elk on private ranches more power to them. I just think they need to keep them Elk behind their fences.

Here's a link to the Pro Elk ranchers website to see their point of view if anyone cares.



http://www.thetruthaboutelk.org/page/page/3926076.htm

 

[Washington Hunter]

Here's a link to the Pro Elk ranchers website to see their point of view if anyone cares.

Well, I don't care about their point of view. I don't believe elk are livestock. They do. It's not something I can or will change my mind about.

 

[kiwi hunta]

Since I am possibly one of the only members to have hunted both Wapiti {Elk} and Red deer {back home in New Zealand}, I have some factual comment to make.

As the Red deer colonised the Wapiti stronghld of south west Fiordland from the mid 1940,s the more aggressive Red deer slowly pushed the Wapiti into a smaller area and cross breeding started almost immeadiatly, members of the N.Z Deerstalking Association would in there own time head into Fiordland and cull out every Red and hybrid animal to be found, an impossible task given the nature of the climate and the country, near vertical with rainfall of around 60 feet a year, perhaps the wettest place on earth.

This great Wapiti herd, the only one in the southern hemisphere degenerated into a Red deer Wapiti hybrid type of species I have even heard the same animal roar and bugle, there were some massive red stags taken which could only be assumed to have Wapiti blood and Wapiti taken in later years though of Wapiti size and colour had no throwbacks but Red deer antler formation with cupping on top.

The government of the day decided to save the last remaining pure Wapiti and then relocate them to a Red deer free area, this was at the time when meat hunting by the helicopter for export to Europe was at its zenith, like governments everywhere they reneged and the waps were never re released back into the wild but kept for venison farming.

So to put it simply if the numbers of both animals are similar the Red deer will slowly overwhelm the Wapiti, There are few pure Wapiti left in N.Z. now, with only several shot each year and of poor quality compared to the 60 to 70" monsters shot in the past.

As an aside the sika deer are even more aggresive and have driven the reds out of some of there historial areas.

This is well documented and availiable in the public forum

Regards.

 

[IdahoWapiti]

Know the truth...

Rammell's cow in question tested SUSPECT not positive for red deer genetics by a lab who has found wild elk to be POSITIVE for red deer genes. All of Rammell's other elk, escapees and not, were tested, and none tested suspect or positive for red deer genes, cwd, tb, brucellosis, or parasites.
Does anyone know that:
-one of the wild elk killed in the hunt for the domestics tested positive for large liver fluke?
-the HSUS is supporting these attacks on game farms? (HSUS opposes ALL hunting).
-no domestic elk in Idaho has EVER tested positive for these diseases?
-Ther IS TB in Idaho's WILD elk populations?
-there are NO RED DEER IN IDAHO?
-domestic elk in Idaho are livestock by STATUTE?
-domestic elk in Idaho are and were not wild?
-Idaho domestic elk are 100% tested for disease?
-less than one tenth of one (.o1) % of wild elk were tested last year for disease?

Think about these things and look at facts rather than other people's opinions before forming your own opinion on this issue. It comes down to a divide and conquer technique being used by non-hunting activist groups. Googling names of some 'sportsmen' who are pushing this issue shows connections to green party environmentalist groups, and public record shows HSUS funds being given to 'sportsmen' groups who are running this anti-game farm show in Idaho.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Think about these things and look at facts rather than other people's opinions before forming your own opinion on this issue. It comes down to a divide and conquer technique being used by non-hunting activist groups. Googling names of some 'sportsmen' who are pushing this issue shows connections to green party environmentalist groups, and public record shows HSUS funds being given to 'sportsmen' groups who are running this anti-game farm show in Idaho.

Finally, something anti-hunters and sportsmen can agree on! Isn't it great?

I see Oregon is looking at putting tighter restrictions on elk farms in Oregon because of the Idaho incident:

Petitioners' goal: Freeze elk ranches
Monday, January 08, 2007
BILL MONROE
The Oregonian

The Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission will consider a petition Friday that eventually could end elk ranching in Oregon.

The petition, filed by the MAD-Elk Coalition, asks commissioners to begin the process to freeze the state's elk ranches at the current 16 operations and ban the sale or transfer of future licenses once the current owners quit or go out of business.

Biologists for the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife are recommending the commission adopt the coalition's request and begin official rule-making.

Friday's session will not feature a decision but rather will begin procedures for public testimony and debate before a decision can be made. The coalition includes such unlikely allies as the Humane Society of the United States and the Oregon Hunters Association.

Impetus for the petition comes from the escape last year of more than 100 elk from an Idaho ranch near the Wyoming border. They threatened the genetic integrity of wild elk in Yellowstone National Park. Most either were recaptured or were killed in a special hunt ordered by the Idaho Department of Fish and Game, but several remain at large.

 

[Oak]

Sounds like Oregon is on the right track.

This thread is like a bad penny...

 

[IdahoWapiti]

There are NOT any domestic elk left 'at large,' and they didn't pose genetic threats, as they were all tested and found to be pure rocky mountain elk, except one cow that DIDN'T escape and was found SUSPECT; she has since been slaughtered.

 

[280]

lets see who will be first to school the newbie

 

[280]

smart money is on Buzz, with Tom coming to the newbies defense

 

[noharleyyet]

smart money is on Buzz, with Tom coming to the newbies defense

If the smart money is on Buzz, on whom is your's?

 

[TheTone]

IW, care to add some more to your profile or introduce yourself so we know where you're coming from? Which elk farm in the state is yours?

 

[280]

certainly not you or anyone from Texas for that matter!

 

[JoseCuervo]

IW, care to add some more to your profile or introduce yourself so we know where you're coming from? Which elk farm in the state is yours?

LMAO!!!! You think maybe there is some full-disclosure lacking???

No real hunter wants to see an Elk being raised in Idaho behind a high fence to be shot by some Texan (my apoligies to No Harley Yet). Claiming that they are "livestock" by statute is pure BS as the only reason they got to the Department of Ag was because of fear of being regulated by those in charge of protecting Idaho's wild elk herds for real hunters.

This should be a good legislative session to drive a final nail into Rammel's type of people.

Good Riddance.

 

[Washington Hunter]

It's too bad anti-game farm folks have to resort to mass hysteria created by false info to get support; even sadder- it's working.
|oo

Good! But no, it's not sad.

I'd also like an answer to the question TheTone asked. (which elk farm is yours?)

Also, how many elk per acre? And what would it cost for a guy to shoot the biggest, highest scoring bull on your place?

 

[shoots-straight]

IW,

There's more reason's to hate game farms than those listed in your post.

1.)ingress and egress of captive and non captive elk.
2.) habitate loss for wild ungulates
3.) theft of public animals for distribution with forged paperwork,(elk that die on the farm, tags removed burried animal and tags put on public elk) has happened. Makes theft almost undetectable.
4.) Public perception of how hunters operate.
5.) Watered down record books.. (animals shot on game farms show up years down the road as legitimate animals taken with either gun or bow.
6.) even though animals test neg. for desease now, ungulates penned in unnatual conditions come down with desease sooner or later in natural response to conditons. Tests today are only 30% conclusive as to either TB, desease, or Red Deer Tests. They haven't got the test worked out that'll work any better as yet. To test for CWD you have to have the brain.
7.) The threat by desease and genitic pollution is too great to a resource that a larger number of humans depend upon. Sporting goods, outfitters, Indians, Game and fish employees, slaughter houses ect.
8.) Costs to general public, fees paid by game ranchers never cover costs by public from fence inspection, livestock transportation, elk recovery efforts, blood testing. Some of these fees are paid through your licences fish and game money.

Just a few more reason's that aren't hysteria. Fact.

 

[Tom]

TheTone, seems to me he's disputing the facts. You against coming from and heading to the facts? Not mass hysteria, missinformation and twisted views, but the facts. That's where that post is coming from, get it?

Face the facts there. I didn't realize the cow re-tested and in question wasn't an excape. If that's true, this forum's majority of membership sure seems to miss the facts. Anybody else catch that, it wasn't an escape, is that for real?

Mass hysteria is right, it seems to me from what I've read. Kiwihunter seems to be sayig the red stag and even the sika have dominated down there in New Zealand, that's interesting info. that would be good to read more about.