Hammond's get grazing rights back despite arson

[Irrelevant]

Environmental groups to protest latest attempt to restore Hammond family grazing permit

Eastern Oregon ranchers Dwight and Steven Hammond's imprisonment sparked the 41-day armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in 2016.

www.opb.org

Just seems wrong. You can submit comments through Jan 15

 

[kwyeewyk]

The ranchers convicted of killing federally protected wolves in the Methow still hold federal grazing permits as well. Sad when the gov bends over backwards to provide public lands at subsidized rates and the operators act like they're so abused.

 

[PrairieHunter]

Amazing

Can't imagine this would happen if anyone but the feds were in charge.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Environmental groups to protest latest attempt to restore Hammond family grazing permit

Eastern Oregon ranchers Dwight and Steven Hammond's imprisonment sparked the 41-day armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in 2016.

www.opb.org

Just seems wrong. You can submit comments through Jan 15

They'll probably be really happy and excited to hear that when they get back from their field trip to the nation's capitol.

 

[QuazyQuinton]

Mmm, I think I'm OK with this. There are a lot of nuances to this story that didn't get covered in the news.

QQ

 

[Oak]

Mmm, I think I'm OK with this. There are a lot of nuances to this story that didn't get covered in the news.

QQ

Well don’t leave us hanging.

 

[QuazyQuinton]

Well don’t leave us hanging.

I don't know. I'm never sure I understood it, and it seems to change every time someone different tells the story. As much as I can piece together, I simply don't think making the Hammond's the villain is the whole story.

I'm certainly not saying the Hammond's were innocent. They were tried, convicted, and sentenced in a court of law. They served the time for which they were sentenced. Had the story ended there, none of us would know who they were, and no one outside Harney County would care.

The arson charge, as best I understand it, came from a wildfire that threatened the Hammond's ranch. The BLM had a crew on the fire, but pulled off (I don't know why.) and also forbade the Hammond's from fighting the fire. Faced with the burning of their property, they decided to go ahead and fight the fire. One of their backfires ran up a ridge and trapped the fire crew, and the crew had to be airlifted out. So yes, their fire fighting attempts endangered the fire crew, and that was the reason for the charges. For whatever reason though, they were charged under anti-terrorism laws. Somehow I feel differently about ranchers trying to defend their land and livelihood than I do about people flying planes into buildings. The judge acknowledged at the trial that he was sentencing them to less than the minimum sentence, but he stated that he believed the minimum sentence was excessive given the circumstances. And again, if the story had ended there, probably none of us would know or care.

It was only after they served their sentence and were back home that someone decided to fuss about the original minimum sentencing guidelines. So a judge ruled that they had to go back to prison for the remainder of the minimum sentence. It didn't sit well with a lot of people that they had done their time and then had to do more. Really the judge's fault, but you can't exactly put him in jail for the extra time. Technically not double jeopardy, but it doesn't entirely pass the eye test, either.

And that was when the Bundy clown show came on the scene. I don't believe for a second that Ammon and crew ever cared a bit about the Hammond's. It was just a catalyst to get people on their bandwagon. Once they took over the refuge, they became the story, and the Hammond's were sort of guilty by association after that. I'm pretty certain, however, that none of the Hammond's were ever part of the refuge shenanigans. I remember it making the news when Ammon came into town once and visited the elder Mrs. Hammond and tried to convince her of what he was all about.

There was bad blood between the Hammond's and the refuge/BLM folks for a long time. Again, the Hammond's didn't always follow the rules (things like cutting fences that weren't theirs), but the refuge/BLM isn't always a good neighbor, either. One of the big issues was two grazing areas (owned by the Hammond's, I think) that were separated by a 50-foot strip of refuge. The refuge wouldn't allow them to move their cattle between the parcels. Technically on the right side of the law, but not making friends.

Anyway, I wrote all that, and I'm still not sure I know how to make sense of it. I guess I think that if they served their time, why shouldn't they be allowed to make a living? My sense is that no one is rolling in money raising cattle in Harney County these days.

QQ

 

[kwyeewyk]

A little more to it with 2 arsons and poaching. I'm all for fostering public relations and the government being a good neighbor, and maybe they deserve another chance, just think it's ironic that there's so much complaining among public land ranchers about how the government treats them.

Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison

www.justice.gov

 

[Irrelevant]

I'm certainly not saying the Hammond's were innocent. They were tried, convicted, and sentenced in a court of law. They served the time for which they were sentenced. Had the story ended there, none of us would know who they were, and no one outside Harney County would care.

There was bad blood between the Hammond's and the refuge/BLM folks for a long time. Again, the Hammond's didn't always follow the rules (things like cutting fences that weren't theirs), but the refuge/BLM isn't always a good neighbor, either. One of the big issues was two grazing areas (owned by the Hammond's, I think) that were separated by a 50-foot strip of refuge. The refuge wouldn't allow them to move their cattle between the parcels. Technically on the right side of the law, but not making friends.

If you can't treat our public land resources with respect, and follow your damn lease, then you don't deserve to acquire another lease.

 

[mtmiller]

A little more to it with 2 arsons and poaching. I'm all for fostering public relations and the government being a good neighbor, and maybe they deserve another chance, just think it's ironic that there's so much complaining among public land ranchers about how the government treats them.

Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison

www.justice.gov

Certainly trumps here-say.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If they paid their debt to society, and they are legally allowed to ask for their grazing permits, then the law says they can have it.

Application of the law regardless of being a bastard or not is important for all of us.

 

[Oak]

If public land grazers can willfully and repeatedly violate the terms of their permits and retain grazing privileges, then there is not much incentive to comply with the terms of their permits. In some parts of the west, it's nearly impossible to even get a notice of non-compliance into the file, much less any real consequence on the ground. It's a wink-wink understanding between agencies and permittees. I will say that I have seen action from agencies when the public shines a hard spotlight on issues, including a temporary permit being pulled in 2020.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If public land grazers can willfully and repeatedly violate the terms of their permits and retain grazing privileges, then there is not much incentive to comply with the terms of their permits. In some parts of the west, it's nearly impossible to even get a notice of non-compliance into the file, much less any real consequence on the ground. It's a wink-wink understanding between agencies and permittees. I will say that I have seen action from agencies when the public shines a hard spotlight on issues, including a temporary permit being pulled in 2020.

Is the problem the agency, or the Taylor Grazing Act?

 

[QuazyQuinton]

A little more to it with 2 arsons and poaching. I'm all for fostering public relations and the government being a good neighbor, and maybe they deserve another chance, just think it's ironic that there's so much complaining among public land ranchers about how the government treats them.

Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison

www.justice.gov

Appreciate you posting this link. There were some details in this version that I hadn't put together before. Like I said, the story changes every time somebody different tells it. Trials, charges, and convictions in court are one thing, but based on following the story over the past few years, I'm not convinced that even this story tells the tip-top truth (or perhaps the whole story). Just as an example, I noticed in this story that the Hammond's were not supposed to light their backfires because there was a burn ban. So does the BLM crew have to check for a burn ban before they light backfires? Lighting a backfire makes the BLM guys "fire fighters" but makes the Hammond's "terrorists."

Like I said, I don't see the Hammond's as innocent victims. There has been bad blood between ranchers and the refuge for a long time, and the Hammond's were part of it. I also don't believe the BLM and refuge folks have been entirely good neighbors. Everybody wants to fight, and nobody wants to solve problems.

QQ

 

[Oak]

Is the problem the agency, or the Taylor Grazing Act?

The agencies (politics).

 

[Ben Lamb]

The agencies (politics).

You mean there are political ramifications for enforcing existing law as prescribed when the prevailing political class doesn't want to actually enforce the law?

 

[Oak]

You mean there are political ramifications for enforcing existing law as prescribed when the prevailing political class doesn't want to actually enforce the law?

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. Example: CPW convenes a working group comprised of BLM, USFS, public land grazers, and conservation advocates in an attempt to find resolutions to conflicts between domestic sheep and wild sheep on public lands. After the first couple of meetings, representatives from Cory Gardner's and Scott Tipton's offices start showing up to the meetings and sitting along the wall of the meeting room as "observers." Nothing intimidating about that....

 

[Ben Lamb]

Seems like 50% of that equation has changed in the Centennial State. The other half went full Qanon.

 

[BWALKER77]

If you can't treat our public land resources with respect, and follow your damn lease, then you don't deserve to acquire another lease.

This.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Appreciate you posting this link. There were some details in this version that I hadn't put together before. Like I said, the story changes every time somebody different tells it. Trials, charges, and convictions in court are one thing, but based on following the story over the past few years, I'm not convinced that even this story tells the tip-top truth (or perhaps the whole story). Just as an example, I noticed in this story that the Hammond's were not supposed to light their backfires because there was a burn ban. So does the BLM crew have to check for a burn ban before they light backfires? Lighting a backfire makes the BLM guys "fire fighters" but makes the Hammond's "terrorists."

Like I said, I don't see the Hammond's as innocent victims. There has been bad blood between ranchers and the refuge for a long time, and the Hammond's were part of it. I also don't believe the BLM and refuge folks have been entirely good neighbors. Everybody wants to fight, and nobody wants to solve problems.

QQ

Fighting wildfire properly is a science. And the officials who make the firefighting decisions have the experience and education to know how to best strategize the attack. Clearly the Hammonds do not have that knowledge ... they nearly burned up a bunch of firefighters. On big fires agencies will often hire ("pick up") locals to help out. If the Hammonds wanted to do their part they could have showed up in fire camp and offered their services. Instead they went onto federal land and lit a fire. It was my understanding they lit fires to get rid of evidence of their poaching activities. It was not an issue of them trying to do a good thing.