Generosity to non-residents

[OntarioHunter]

Making any valid comparisons is pretty much hopeless. The geography, climate, resource base, and demographics vary radically between jurisdictions. Just making a comparison of tag allotments paints a very distorted picture.

 

[TOGIE]

The geography, climate, resource base, and demographics vary radically between jurisdictions.

all that has to do with how many tags are given out in the first place.

you can absolutely compare how many go to R vs. NR.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

In general I think people are more concerned with the number of tags issued to NR than the number of NR hunters.

100% disagree, they care about seeing trucks in "their" spots. Most folks have no conception of how the system works could be a million tags and as long as they didn't see out of state plates they wouldn't give a shit.

Making any valid comparisons is pretty much hopeless. The geography, climate, resource base, and demographics vary radically between jurisdictions. Just making a comparison of tag allotments paints a very distorted picture.

I'd argue it's the only thing that's valid.

 

[8andcounting]

as long as they didn't see out of state plates they wouldn't give a shit.

And as long as their deer and elk tags remain dirt cheap … speaking specifically for Montana … if you try messing with the $16 deer tag you’ll hear more people squeal than you can imagine

 

[noharleyyet]

NR trending is headed in the direction of charging a 600 buck application fee with 0% draw odds.

Residents: That's fair.

 

[OntarioHunter]

all that has to do with how many tags are given out in the first place.

you can absolutely compare how many go to R vs. NR.

And what is a "resident?" Some guy who camps in a McMansion or trailer park for just long enough every year (allegedly) and then runs off back home or to Arizona? What is or is not a "resident" varies from state to state. Makes comparisons complicated.

 

[TOGIE]

And what is a "resident?" Some guy who camps in a McMansion or trailer park for just long enough every year (allegedly) and then runs off back home or to Arizona? What is or is not a "resident" varies from state to state. Makes comparisons complicated.

well, in regards to making comparisons from the numbers we can disregard the maybe 1% of folks bending the rules and still compare the numbers based on a rather reasonable assumption that R's permanently live in the state and NR's do not. statistically irrelevant.

 

[8andcounting]

And what is a "resident?" Some guy who camps in a McMansion or trailer park for just long enough every year (allegedly) and then runs off back home or to Arizona? What is or is not a "resident" varies from state to state. Makes comparisons complicated.

I just know that the McMansion guy or trailer park guy that does that , is more of a resident than you are …. So cry in your Cheerios or whatever but you are not a resident

 

[ccc23454]

These downstream decision are going to be seen this spring! Washington just closed its spring bear, how many tacos with roof tents will now be in idaho or NW montana this spring that other wise would of hunted at home. Now hunters who have hunted in idaho/MT are further frustrated by increased pressure. These tag allocations or OTC tags becomes a self-propelled problem. If a major state like CO(and it will) makes significant cuts to elk allocation the entire system will be even further stressed.

 

[Oak]

If a major state like CO(and it will) makes significant cuts to elk allocation the entire system will be even further stressed.

You have more faith in our Commission than I do.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

And what is a "resident?" Some guy who camps in a McMansion or trailer park for just long enough every year (allegedly) and then runs off back home or to Arizona? What is or is not a "resident" varies from state to state. Makes comparisons complicated.

I've only hunted like 10 states at this point, but so far your statement to be inaccurate.
All states have virtually the exact same rules.

For the purpose of hunting, which is what's relevant to this thread, you can only hold a resident license in 1 state, you have to pay taxes (if applicable, have a driver's license or ID card from that state, and have your vehicle registered there, and have that state be primary address.

There are lifetime license, but that doesn't change residency, you are a non-resident with a lifetime license.

There are differences when it come to how long you have to live there to become a resident but that's not that important.

So yes you can be a snowbird, but you are limited to 1 state for residency.

I'm sure there are lots of folks violating the law, but that doesn't mean the law is opaque on this matter.

 

[PrairieHunter]

I've only hunted like 10 states at this point, but so far your statement to be inaccurate.
All states have virtually the exact same rules.

For the purpose of hunting, which is what's relevant to this thread, you can only hold a resident license in 1 state, you have to pay taxes (if applicable, have a driver's license or ID card from that state, and have your vehicle registered there, and have that state be primary address.

There are lifetime license, but that doesn't change residency, you are a non-resident with a lifetime license.

There are differences when it come to how long you have to live there to become a resident but that's not that important.

So yes you can be a snowbird, but you are limited to 1 state for residency.

I'm sure there are lots of folks violating the law, but that doesn't mean the law is opaque on this matter.

Wyoming has a lot of people who are residents for "tax purposes" but you wont' find them here much of the year. And many of these people purchase resident hunting and fishing licenses, even our own politicians bend the rules. Liz Cheney recently.

So yea it's not legal, and in most states it's likely not abused a whole lot, but in Wyoming it is not due to the hunting but due to the tax implications of being a resident.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Wyoming has a lot of people who are residents for "tax purposes" but you wont' find them here much of the year. And many of these people purchase resident hunting and fishing licenses, even our own politicians bend the rules. Liz Cheney recently.

So yea it's not legal, and in most states it's likely not abused a whole lot, but in Wyoming it is not due to the hunting but due to the tax implications of being a resident.

Sure there are residency implications beyond hunting, and people take advantage of those (WA, NV, SD, WY, TN, FL, TX, AK, and NH also don't have income taxes) but with regard to hunting, the "breaking the law part" is buying a WY or MT etc resident hunting license while having a resident license in another state and/or not meeting the requirements to have that license.

People break the law.

But my response was to Ontario who seemed to suggest the laws were vague and varied, they are not.

 

[PrairieHunter]

Sure there are residency implications beyond hunting, and people take advantage of those (WA, NV, SD, WY, TN, FL, TX, AK, and NH also don't have income taxes) but with regard to hunting, the "breaking the law part" is buying a WY or MT etc resident hunting license while having a resident license in another state and/or not meeting the requirements to have that license.

People break the law.

But my response was to Ontario who seemed to suggest the laws were vague and varied, they are not.

They do vary some. The biggest is the time it takes to become a resident for hunting purposes. Wyoming is much longer than other states for example.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

People break the law.

But my response was to Ontario who seemed to suggest the laws were vague and varied, they are not.

Agreed. The laws are simple and straightforward and generally require reading less than a page worth of information in a regulation book. Two types of folks violate this. The willfully ignorant (Liz Cheney) and the willfully lawbreaking (Bill Busbice). Both need to be dealt with.

In regards to other western states considering how their tag allocations will affect other western states demand, they should pay little to no attention to it. The folks in each state need to do what is right for their state. Chasing the unintended consequences is a fools errand, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

They do vary some. The biggest is the time it takes to become a resident for hunting purposes. Wyoming is much longer than other states for example.

 

[LopeHunter]

You should look at each state game agency's website and get your numbers from there and just fix up a spreadsheet on Excel if you want to do broad numerical categories. I would add thought that the information you're looking for is more complex than just what numbers tell you.

If you define generous to NRs as something similar to ROI, each state has strengths and weaknesses outside of tag allocations.

My resident state of WA has no cap on non-residents. Costs an arm and a leg to apply as a non-resident but you are in the same bucket as me with the same odds. I suppose I need to start bitching to our F&G and the legislature that we need "up to" 10% language and only offer up certain units each year for NR to apply to and no cow elk tags and no hunting on certain lands we will reserve for residents and if you are 50 feet from a paved road you need a guide and put 100+ tags in an Expo that all but ends you chance at several primo units and species and have an allotment of guide-sponsored tags and require 100% of the tag money up front so we are in sync with all the other states. Heck, I think we should cap non-resident fishing tags, too, as I pay a lot in taxes just to have you free-loading NR come catch our sturgeon, halibut and salmon. The blue ribbon steelhead streams should be reserved for residents. And camping spots in our state parks should be for residents. Pro sports tickets should be just for residents.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Sure there are residency implications beyond hunting, and people take advantage of those (WA, NV, SD, WY, TN, FL, TX, AK, and NH also don't have income taxes) but with regard to hunting, the "breaking the law part" is buying a WY or MT etc resident hunting license while having a resident license in another state and/or not meeting the requirements to have that license.

People break the law.

But my response was to Ontario who seemed to suggest the laws were vague and varied, they are not.

They are not necessarily vague but they do vary. In some states it's enough to pay taxes, some only prove you've lived there. And the time required to live in the state varies from state to state. In Montana it's six months (which matches Ontario). Interesting that in Montana anyone who takes up a job there must change vehicle plates within six weeks but can't buy a resident hunting license for six months.

 

[ccc23454]

Wyoming has a lot of people who are residents for "tax purposes" but you wont' find them here much of the year. And many of these people purchase resident hunting and fishing licenses, even our own politicians bend the rules. Liz Cheney recently.

So yea it's not legal, and in most states it's likely not abused a whole lot, but in Wyoming it is not due to the hunting but due to the tax implications of being a resident.

Her getting a ticket for not meeting residency for the fishing license was hysterical

 

[Deleted member 28227]

They are not necessarily vague but they do vary. In some states it's enough to pay taxes, some only prove you've lived there. And the time required to live in the state varies from state to state. In Montana it's six months (which matches Ontario). Interesting that in Montana anyone who takes up a job there must change vehicle plates within six weeks but can't buy a resident hunting license for six months.

I give up