Generosity to non-residents

[TOGIE]

i started typing out a reply and decided to instead go join the ginger ale fun

 

[8andcounting]

They are not necessarily vague but they do vary. In some states it's enough to pay taxes, some only prove you've lived there. And the time required to live in the state varies from state to state. In Montana it's six months (which matches Ontario). Interesting that in Montana anyone who takes up a job there must change vehicle plates within six weeks but can't buy a resident hunting license for six months.

are you dense or ? Wow

 

[OntarioHunter]

are you dense or ? Wow

The issue is not necessarily individuals obtaining resident hunting licenses in several states simultaneously but rather what constitutes a resident varies from state to state. I can well imagine a resident of Rhode Island would prefer to hunt in Montana and avoid the expense and uncertainty of applying for a nonresident license. So he becomes a phony resident of Montana by renting a house or trailer spot and allegedly staying there six months out of the year. Doesn't mean he has to give up the home in RI. Buying a resident hunting license in RI might be an invitation to trouble easily avoided by simply not doing it.

If what constitutes a resident varies from state to state, what value is there in making statistical comparisons of nonresident vs resident licenses state to state?

There. Happy to spoon feed that for you. And I'm the dense one?

 

[Jdp010]

The Supreme Court case establishing the constitutionality of NR discrimination by states is literally captioned "vs. Montana FWP". Among the first case every first year law student reads. Montana FWP literally invented NR discrimination and displays it heavily to this day with large NR cost multipliers and country leading fees.

You poor Colorado residents - I thought the boot marks on your backs (including from my own boots) were clearly evident to all.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

The issue is not necessarily individuals obtaining resident hunting licenses in several states simultaneously but rather what constitutes a resident varies from state to state. I can well imagine a resident of Rhode Island would prefer to hunt in Montana and avoid the expense and uncertainty of applying for a nonresident license. So he becomes a phony resident of Montana by renting a house or trailer spot and allegedly staying there six months out of the year. Doesn't mean he has to give up the home in RI. Buying a resident hunting license in RI might be an invitation to trouble easily avoided by simply not doing it.

If what constitutes a resident varies from state to state, what value is there in making statistical comparisons of nonresident vs resident licenses state to state?

There. Happy to spoon feed that for you. And I'm the dense one?

 

[8andcounting]

The issue is not necessarily individuals obtaining resident hunting licenses in several states simultaneously but rather what constitutes a resident varies from state to state. I can well imagine a resident of Rhode Island would prefer to hunt in Montana and avoid the expense and uncertainty of applying for a nonresident license. So he becomes a phony resident of Montana by renting a house or trailer spot and allegedly staying there six months out of the year. Doesn't mean he has to give up the home in RI. Buying a resident hunting license in RI might be an invitation to trouble easily avoided by simply not doing it.

If what constitutes a resident varies from state to state, what value is there in making statistical comparisons of nonresident vs resident licenses state to state?

There. Happy to spoon feed that for you. And I'm the dense one?

Yes . Yes you are

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Remember this one…

Downing sentenced for hunting violations, loses privileges for 18 months

Troy Downing acknowledged obtaining resident hunting licenses as a non-resident and unlawfully procuring a license or permit.

amp.greatfallstribune.com

 

[PrairieHunter]

Her getting a ticket for not meeting residency for the fishing license was hysterical

Yes it was. That stuff happens quite a bit. I know a country star got a ticket in Colorado for posting videos of fishing but had no license.

And another this week was the head of the Iowa DNR asking for a ticket for fishing with no license.

Iowa's DNR director has enforcement chief write her a ticket after being caught fishing without a license​

Daniel Lathrop
Des Moines Register

View Comments



0:39
0:41





No, the director of the Iowa Department of Natural Resources was not caught at 4:33 a.m. on March 21 fishing without a license on the Mississippi River.
Yes, that's what the citation says.
In fact, DNR Director Kayla Lyon's unsanctioned fishing trip was the previous Friday. While accompanying DNR staff on a tour, Lyon caught a pair of paddlefish.
Lyon told the Des Moines Register a local conservation officer checked her combination hunting and fishing license, but she said she did not learn until DNR law enforcement chief Trace Kendig told her later that it had expired.

 

[PrairieHunter]

View attachment 218005

Yea, just like I pointed out there are some differences in things like the time it takes. I was surprised when I moved back to Wyoming.

Was there a reason you quoted me there?

 

[RSET]

Hold my beer....

@Nunyacreek your friend clearly has no idea how anything works. Most MT residents I know think that NR buy tags OTC like residents.

They can't, it's all draw.

CO gives out more NR elk tags than all us states combined. Colorado has units where 70% of the hunters in the field are non-residents. This later fact was given by CPW at the last meeting when they did a case study of the steamboat area units.

As you can see these numbers are about 5 years old, and what has changed is most states with the exception of CO have gotten stingy with there their tags.
View attachment 217908

I actually did the math of what would happen if CO went the route of other western states
View attachment 217909

One of the reasons I left CO. Happy to be back in AZ!

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Yea, just like I pointed out there are some differences in things like the time it takes. I was surprised when I moved back to Wyoming.

Was there a reason you quoted me there?

In my original post I agreed there were differences, but important point is that states don’t allow you to buy a resident tag in multiple states, that’s illegal.

@OntarioHunter Vermont or Virginia might not spend lots of manpower enforcing those rules but all the western states, which have elk, do care, and pursue them.

Colorado publishes the Fish and Game violation statistics every year.


It’s a small number. The incentive to cheat, with COs preference point system is way higher than MT… just saying.

 

[Derek44]

The Supreme Court case establishing the constitutionality of NR discrimination by states is literally captioned "vs. Montana FWP". Among the first case every first year law student reads. Montana FWP literally invented NR discrimination and displays it heavily to this day with large NR cost multipliers and country leading fees.

You poor Colorado residents - I thought the boot marks on your backs (including from my own boots) were clearly evident to all.

It’s all good. All of us discriminated against NRs will just go pick up the FCFS Ram tags in your non discriminating state!!

 

[BoulderBulls]

it's sort of a catch 22 though.

i go back and forth.

what's clear is that NR opportunity is declining everywhere while at the same time in a lot of colorado units quality is tanking due to crowding.

so, if my NR opportunity as a colorado resident is tanking, nearly across the board, then i want my resident quality AND opportunity to get better.

i'd personally even further sacrifice further NR opportunity in order to gain better R opportunity and even moreso, quality.

personally, i'd put the onus on other states to consider their actions against NR more than colorado. because it's the other states actions that are gonna cause people like me and others in colorado to further push our managers to give us more and better.

as my NR opportunities get fewer and farther between, i want better opportunity and quality at home.

wyoming general elk is gonna turn into a once in a decade regardless of what colorado does. meanwhile, we'll still be dishing out oodles of tags and have units with 70% NR. at that point i couldn't care less what the ramifications are if we cut NR opportunity. i don't what shit opportunity as an NR AND shit quality and hampered opportunity as an R.

I'm also an R and couldn't agree with you more

 

[Nunyacreek]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I’ll do some follow up and figure out what I might do with the information or rather how to present it. I immediately went to antlered tags because they seem to “matter” more but since his complaint was couched in terms of perceptions of crowding, tag type probably doesn’t matter.
I was recently involved in a group where we looked at overall hunter numbers and I was astonished to see that NR upland (bird) license had remained pretty constant or declined in Montana over ten years or so, IIR they were around 5000 annually. What seems to have changed is anecdotal reports of greatly increased effort. There were lots of descriptions of guys with multiple bird dogs who came and stayed and hunted for weeks or even months in NE Montana. I was at the Yogo Inn in Lewistown last September (I know, a long way from Plentywood) and the parking lot was full of hunters with dog trailers and lots of ambition. This was a far cry from a local or even NR Hunter who shot a few birds after tagging out on deer.
One suggestion I’ve heard discussed is a five or seven day NR upland license that might limit their impact on local hunters. This seems like a reasonable compromise but I’m sure some group would oppose it. I’m not a bird hunter but to hear friends talk this crowding is endemic.
One other thought that occurred to me is that this NR focus on eastern MT may have intensified as the opportunities for general season hunting in the western part of the state has declined in the last decade. This might be pure speculation.
Last, most western states have experienced rapid or at least sustained population growth recently. People don’t move here because they hate the outdoors. I fear that in terms of hunting and crowding we have met the enemy, and he is us.

 

[LopeHunter]

I just know that the McMansion guy or trailer park guy that does that , is more of a resident than you are …. So cry in your Cheerios or whatever but you are not a resident

And, those guys are likely not bothering with the application game but buying tags in NV, CO, NM and at auctions or private game ranches.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Hold my beer....

@Nunyacreek your friend clearly has no idea how anything works. Most MT residents I know think that NR buy tags OTC like residents.

They can't, it's all draw.

CO gives out more NR elk tags than all us states combined. Colorado has units where 70% of the hunters in the field are non-residents. This later fact was given by CPW at the last meeting when they did a case study of the steamboat area units.

As you can see these numbers are about 5 years old, and what has changed is most states with the exception of CO have gotten stingy with there their tags.
View attachment 217908

I actually did the math of what would happen if CO went the route of other western states
View attachment 217909

50 percent of ALL U.S. NON RESIDENT OPPORTUNITIES LIE IN COLORADO??!! Wtf am I doing!??

 

[Flatbrimmer]

It’s B tags that really inflate these numbers . In my opinion Montana should do away with all deer b tags … period

Only for NR

 

[8andcounting]

Only for NR

Residents should be on draw for turkey day shoot . That would save alot of 2-3 points

 

[Trap]

Hold my beer....

@Nunyacreek your friend clearly has no idea how anything works. Most MT residents I know think that NR buy tags OTC like residents.

They can't, it's all draw.

CO gives out more NR elk tags than all us states combined. Colorado has units where 70% of the hunters in the field are non-residents. This later fact was given by CPW at the last meeting when they did a case study of the steamboat area units.

As you can see these numbers are about 5 years old, and what has changed is most states with the exception of CO have gotten stingy with there their tags.
View attachment 217908

I actually did the math of what would happen if CO went the route of other western states
View attachment 217909

Wow! Impressive work. I had no idea. I never really worried about Co as I have never hunted there. My dad grew up in Rifle and I might hunt this fall or next with my cousin who lives there. I am concerned about the wolves in Colorado as I don’t see proper management happening. Given some recent votes management of wolves seems highly unlikely. Colorado elk numbers will decline. That’s a lot of lost tags to replace in other western states. I’m scared I may never get another elk tag

 

[amo16]

Residents should be on draw for turkey day shoot . That would save alot of 2-3 points

Tags should be issued to meet management goals, not popularity contests. If there's a management reason to get rid of B tags that's one thing, getting rid of them for the sake of getting rid of them is asinine.