Why??? and Why?
FWP Proposes Expanding Wolf Hunting Opportunities in Northwest Montana
- Thread starter 406LIFE
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One is a game animal (also know as a specie in need of management in Montana) managed by the state and at one time under ESA protection. The other one not so much.
And it's biologically different as well.
FI460
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The public sentiment is both easier to address and perhaps the more important issue.
As @tjones mentioned, ESA status is attached to wolves (regardless of current listing status). Once an animal is associated with the ESA the public attaches a rarity attribute to it. Couple that with the fact that most people have seen a coyote, (everyone has heard how coyotes are invading the urban centers) and the fact that the vast majority of people have never seen a wolf and you have a perfect recipe for a public in favor of wolf protections and largely aloof to coyotes.
All that said, I think I'm in favor of expanding the opportunities, but I worry about knuckleheads on social media creating a firestorm.
SAJ-99
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For every person with your opinion (365/24/7), there are 10 people on the exact opposite end of the spectrum (0/0/0). You need to realize that you are outnumbered and going to lose every public battle like this, even if it was moved to complete state control. And even if you “win” on wolves, the attitude will be used against you on grizzlies. Both sides need to look up and get familiar with the concept of a compromise. I think the FWP proposal is that, and small victory for science and facts.
A post like this is usually followed by the post “Lets reintroduce wolves to Central Park then.”
Damn super wolves. mtmuley
SAJ-99
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Yeah, I know, but I thought maybe, just maybe. Especially after all the threads about hunter numbers declining. No one on the fringes of either side will be heard if the process works like it should. We as hunters should just be happy that urbanites care about things like wolves and grizzlies at all. There was a time in this country’s history when they didn’t. No one wants to go back to that point.
Seeleylakehunter
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I say let us hunt them at night
I agree! This would be an effective method. I ran across these yesterday morning along Browns Meadow Road about 5 miles west of Kila. It’s gotten to the point where I don’t feel safe about turning my hounds loose of a cat track.
Neighbor has home video of 3 that walked right past their garage. I hike my wanker off a few miles on snowshoes and my wife text the pictures... What to say. Thus far, I've had more opportunistic encounters with wolves while hunting elk, deer and bear versus intended wolf hunts.
All good. I agree with Randy11 - would be nice to have them available during Spring bear season. I'll take an opportunistic wolf any day of the week.
For selfish reasons longer seasons and a means to maximize opportunity to meet quota, once we have an actual grasp of the numbers, of course...
All good. I agree with Randy11 - would be nice to have them available during Spring bear season. I'll take an opportunistic wolf any day of the week.
For selfish reasons longer seasons and a means to maximize opportunity to meet quota, once we have an actual grasp of the numbers, of course...
Gerald Martin
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It’s just “feel good” expansion of opportunity to appease the people complaining about wolves. It won’t make a significant difference in wolf numbers.
Having said that, more opportunity is better.
The reality of wolves and wolf hunting is that the people complaining the loudest are doing the least.
There have been 17 wolves killed in Unit 121 this year by all hunters and trappers combined. Being able to shoot ten instead of five is going to really do a lot.
Truth of the matter is that the number of truly serious wolf hunters is a minuscule percentage of overall hunters. Most people’s idea of hunting wolves in this area is driving the open roads and hoping they will see one they can shoot from the pickup. After burning through a couple tanks of gas it’s back to complaining about how FWP won’t let us have enough “opportunity.”
There’s lots of talkers and not many doers. The doers by and large have figured out how hard it is and keep their mouths shut and keep plugging away. They are the ones who are killing one or two a year. The rest of the kill is from incidental encounters that some is lucky enough to capitalize on.
Having said that, more opportunity is better.
The reality of wolves and wolf hunting is that the people complaining the loudest are doing the least.
There have been 17 wolves killed in Unit 121 this year by all hunters and trappers combined. Being able to shoot ten instead of five is going to really do a lot.
Truth of the matter is that the number of truly serious wolf hunters is a minuscule percentage of overall hunters. Most people’s idea of hunting wolves in this area is driving the open roads and hoping they will see one they can shoot from the pickup. After burning through a couple tanks of gas it’s back to complaining about how FWP won’t let us have enough “opportunity.”
There’s lots of talkers and not many doers. The doers by and large have figured out how hard it is and keep their mouths shut and keep plugging away. They are the ones who are killing one or two a year. The rest of the kill is from incidental encounters that some is lucky enough to capitalize on.
I don't disagree with the above, but just want to add that there are hunters, and more specifically trappers that are getting their limit each year. Not many, but there are some. A coworker of mine has killed 3 of her 5 already this year.
Those few that know what they're doing will have the ability to kill more with this expansion.
Those few that know what they're doing will have the ability to kill more with this expansion.
Gerald Martin
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The ones I know who are filling their tags by trapping have already figured out how to include a trapping partner to ensure they have enough tags.
Not saying I don’t support the expansion, just saying I don’t think it will change much. I don’t know of anyone who has tagged out this year and had to stop.
Sorry Gerald though I don't follow. You may be jaded by your extremes for your neck of the woods (and we all know they exist) and many hold reason to voice their position about wolves as well.
On note of direct wolf hunter/trappers, two gents I've become friends with specifically due to our more "vocal involvement" are die hard wolf hunters and they have been vocal every opportunity they've had. They will make more opportunity knowing they've additional tags and time and are also an outspoken voice on this topic.
Also taking a step back from this... wolf hunting is not a freezer filler. Canine #'s and flavor are not too appealing to most however, I'm sure you, JR Young, etc are able to make a mean rump roast of a wolf and I would certainly try it... Wolves do affect those that value a freezer filled with elk, deer, moose, etc. Just because people voice out, does not discount their voice because they don't hunt wolves, specifically.
Cheers. I always value your opinion. A value to disagree is respected from myself as well.
On note of direct wolf hunter/trappers, two gents I've become friends with specifically due to our more "vocal involvement" are die hard wolf hunters and they have been vocal every opportunity they've had. They will make more opportunity knowing they've additional tags and time and are also an outspoken voice on this topic.
Also taking a step back from this... wolf hunting is not a freezer filler. Canine #'s and flavor are not too appealing to most however, I'm sure you, JR Young, etc are able to make a mean rump roast of a wolf and I would certainly try it... Wolves do affect those that value a freezer filled with elk, deer, moose, etc. Just because people voice out, does not discount their voice because they don't hunt wolves, specifically.
Cheers. I always value your opinion. A value to disagree is respected from myself as well.
That is a good point.
Gerald Martin
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Charles, I am in favor of adding length to the seasons and if they want to make the bag limit 50 wolves per person, I'm fine with it. Just curious though, how many wolves have your two hard core hunting friends killed this year? Is it more than five each?
I only know of one local hunter in all of Sanders Co who consistently kills five wolves. He helps his daughter and trapping partner fill their tags as well. The lengths of effort and expense he goes through to accomplish this are way beyond what most people are willing to put out.
Out of the 100 + people at the last meeting in Trout Creek there were probably 30 or so who were quite eager to express their antagonism toward wolves and all predators any time a speaker mentioned "wolf", "bear", or "lion". I bet collectively those guys haven't killed a handful of wolves in their lives. Yet, they are more than happy to continue shooting every raghorn bull that crosses their path.
@#$%@$#$ Predators.
If the people who complain about too few elk and too many wolves keep on killing the remant deer and elk that remain and don't hunt wolves, they are part of their problem.
( Edit- I meant to ask if your friends ever killed five each? Obviously, they aren't killing more than that. I was typing faster than I was thinking. My bad.)
I only know of one local hunter in all of Sanders Co who consistently kills five wolves. He helps his daughter and trapping partner fill their tags as well. The lengths of effort and expense he goes through to accomplish this are way beyond what most people are willing to put out.
Out of the 100 + people at the last meeting in Trout Creek there were probably 30 or so who were quite eager to express their antagonism toward wolves and all predators any time a speaker mentioned "wolf", "bear", or "lion". I bet collectively those guys haven't killed a handful of wolves in their lives. Yet, they are more than happy to continue shooting every raghorn bull that crosses their path.
@#$%@$#$ Predators.
If the people who complain about too few elk and too many wolves keep on killing the remant deer and elk that remain and don't hunt wolves, they are part of their problem.
( Edit- I meant to ask if your friends ever killed five each? Obviously, they aren't killing more than that. I was typing faster than I was thinking. My bad.
)
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Yep. To consistently kill a wolf, even one every season is extremely hard. Time and dedication. Up the quota. But very few will take advantage. I admire those that can. mtmuley
Dunning Kruger
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Well, you say that, but what would the wolf and elk numbers be today if idaho had never allowed any wolf hunting or trapping? No way to know without a time machine., but i got a hunch theyd be a lot worse off than they are now.
