Fresh Tracks Weekly - Why Non-resident Hunters Pay More

[Forkyfinder]

Great point here. I suspect that may come home to roost a bit in the upcoming years.

How, exactly? Here in MT our climates never been more politically friendly to your idea and probably never will be.

Not a single bill of the bullshit you speak of was drafted or brought to the legislature or associated committee.

 

[Treeshark]

How, exactly? Here in MT our climates never been more politically friendly to your idea and probably never will be.

True- my opinion here only, but your home state is perhaps further down the tracks on this than many- so we can see this happening in real time.

Two main ways I can think for this point to manifest itself right off the top: tag allocations and diminishing public access.

Montana blows right through the NR caps set yearly, which are already too high for mule deer. Not sure if you checked out the Colorado NR mule deer tag allocations for the NW part of the state, but it’s a bit of a head scratcher. Same for G deer tag and other tags in Wyoming in my opinion. Regarding access, why enroll in Block Management when a lease option exists? It’s certainly not fair to expect landowners to continue to grant handshake access with the cash available these days.

There is a third way this will likely be impactful in the upcoming years, and it’s the worst one: less guys applying=less guys giving a crap about what happens outside of their home state.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Regarding access, why enroll in Block Management when a lease option exists?

Lots of reasons. Mostly involved with a little thought beyond yourself, im not sure how to explain if you dont see it inherently.

There is a third way this will likely be impactful in the upcoming years, and it’s the worst one: less guys applying=less guys giving a crap about what happens outside of their home state.

Of all treecarp fairytales - i like this one the most.

You expect me to believe that there will be a day where NR feel so jaded - they dont apply? Wyoming just had that trial run and found plenty of encouraging results to show the opposite.

 

[KingOfTagSoup]

Lots of reasons. Mostly involved with a little thought beyond yourself, im not sure how to explain if you dont see it inherently.

Of all treecarp fairytales - i like this one the most.

You expect me to believe that there will be a day where NR feel so jaded - they dont apply? Wyoming just had that trial run and found plenty of encouraging results to show the opposite.

I think you misunderstood my point a bit. The example in Wyoming is the exact 'taking advantage' that I was talking about. They realized that as long as the demand exists they can charge as much as they want and they are taking advantage of that. Which means, the only way to make change is to take away the demand in a drastic way. Obviously the chances of that happening are virtually zero but in theory that's what it would take.

 

[Treeshark]

You expect me to believe that there will be a day where NR feel so jaded - they dont apply?

A reduction in some instances, absolutely. It will be interesting to follow Utah NR applications/point purchases next year, will be a good case study to prove one of our points.

It would be interesting to compare NR bighorn/moose apps for 2025 vs a few years ago.

Why any NR with less than max would put in for that vs buying raffle tickets is beyond me.

 

[Treeshark]

It will be interesting to see how many people actually listen to the history of how we got here, the court cases and legislation that has steered us to this point

Hopefully everyone chiming in will.

I was unaware of some of this history, and was surprised to learn how recent some of it was challenged and reestablished. I learned a lot from this one, and appreciated the measured analysis.

 

[mevertsen]

Going off recollection, but was the 2005 case the Gary Taulmann, USO fiasco about how many tags states could give to NR, and kind of how the states got the authority to set them at what they wanted?

Edit. Maybe George taulman

 

[WapitiBob]

Going off recollection, but was the 2005 case the Gary Taulmann, USO fiasco about how many tags states could give to NR, and kind of how the states got the authority to set them at what they wanted?

Edit. Maybe George taulman

Yes, after George won and AZ removed the nr cap, was when the Harry Reid Bill removed hunting from the dormant commerce clause and allows states to discriminate.

 

[Treeshark]

Of all treecarp fairytales - i like this one the most.

You expect me to believe that there will be a day where NR feel so jaded - they dont apply? Wyoming just had that trial run and found plenty of encouraging results to show the opposite.

Lifted from another thread, but I found this interesting:

 

[rjthehunter]

Lifted from another thread, but I found this interesting:

View attachment 371761

I came here to post this.

Applications dropped hard last year. It will be interesting to see what this year does. It debunks a lot of the "People will pay whatever the cost is". Look at that sharp drop. For the regular general draw it went from 8,200 applicants down to 5,500.

For the special, it went from 4,200 down to 1,900.

They just keep cinching the knot on the NRs.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Lifted from another thread, but I found this interesting:

View attachment 371761

So how many tags went unsold?

 

[Treeshark]

So how many tags went unsold?

None. But that’s not what we are discussing here right?

Feel free to move the goalpost as necessary, but we were clearly discussing applications.

 

[Forkyfinder]

None. But that’s not what we are discussing here right?

Feel free to move the goalpost as necessary, but we were discussing applications.

Oh. I shouldnt have said applications, that was error on my part.

They'll sell out - nearly regardless of price, thats my point.

 

[Treeshark]

They'll sell out - nearly regardless of price, thats my point.

I agree with you there. The point I was attempting to make is that reduced applications are not necessarily a good sign, and perhaps there is indeed a point in which people begin to walk away.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I agree with you there. The point I was attempting to make is that reduced applications are not necessarily a good sign.

For whom, and why?

 

[Treeshark]

For whom, and why?

Well, the people walking away for starters. As @schmalts pointed out, it sucks to see longtime hunters hang it up for financial reasons.

I’m fairly sure I know at least one of the guys he is talking about- if so, it’s the guy who took me on my first trip out West. It sucks for him to be priced out. It sucks for me too, he’s a great guy to hunt with (we still get after it in WI plenty).

In addition to that, and I know many disagree, I do not think state isolationism is productive in fighting the severe headwinds DIY public land hunters are facing right now.

 

[Treeshark]

I came here to post this.

Sorry to steal your thunder, great find.

I am curious about Utah next year. Not sure if everyone got it, but they sent an email regarding the price hikes not being in effect until next year right before the application deadline. Not sure why they would have sent it when they did if not for concern over application numbers they were seeing for this year, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

[rjthehunter]

Sorry to steal your thunder, great find.

I am curious about Utah next year. Not sure if everyone got it, but they sent an email regarding the price hikes not being in effect until next year right before the application deadline. Not sure why they would have sent it when they did if not for concern over application numbers they were seeing for this year, but perhaps I’m wrong.

No you're good. There was a big boost around the Covid era, but it's declining now, and with the price hikes, it's really dropping now.

 

[TOGIE]

@rjthehunter @Treeshark

is that a gohunt graph? i can't find it if so. curious what it looks like in the 5 years leading up to covid...

 

[Treeshark]

is that a gohunt graph?

I assume so, but I stole it from one of RJ’s posts on another thread.

Wyoming’s website shows data from 2021 forward, so if GoHunt just distills that into the charts I’m not sure they have it. If they do, I can’t find it.