Fresh Tracks Weekly - Why Non-resident Hunters Pay More

Big Fin

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Seems every few years enough non-resident fee increases accumulate to cause a surge of emails and comments to us. Many of them are venting and frustration, which I understand. And many of those venting demonstrate a pretty low level of understanding about the history of how we go here.

How we got here mostly originates from the Baldwin case of 1978, the many cases lost by states from 2002-2005, and the Federal legislation to exempt states from the Dormant Commerce Clause when it comes to wildlife that was passed in 2005 as a response to the western states losing court cases on non-resident allocation

With significant prices increases in the last few years, along some recent smaller issues, such as Oklahoma now making WMAs/NWR more expensive and restricted to non-residents, or Kansas passing a bill (that was eventually vetoed) to restrict NR waterfowlers, our inbox is full of messages about the resident v. non-resident issue. So, Marcus and I felt adding some history might help some of this discussion.

That being said, when I raise caution about the western states' tendencies to continually lay the pipe to non-residents, the residents of western states have some comically colorful descriptions of me and my intelligence. I stand by the last part of this video - that western residents are not doing themselves long-term benefit by continually placing more costs on non-residents while leaving their own fees laughably low. My home state of Montana being most recent, by increasing the NR base hunting license from $15 to $100, as if the elk tag cost ratio of $20 to $1,078 wasn't enough.

I'm all about each state setting whatever tag allocations work for them. In my home state it is "up to 10%." For states that are more generous, such as CO and WY, I'm grateful. For states that are more restrictive, such as NM and OR, or ND providing no NR moose tags or SD providing no NR elk tags, I accept that. Their decision. I adjust my applications accordingly.

Once the allocations are set, the pricing seems to be a big issue I struggle to understand. If a state has a NR cap, that cap is going to determine how many NRs will get a license. Pricing has nothing to do with resident v. non-resident opportunity or crowding by NRs. Pricing is more to do with residents taking a stance on how much of their own agency do/don't want to fund.

It will be interesting to see how many people actually listen to the history of how we got here, the court cases and legislation that has steered us to this point, of if they will just use it as a reason to vent about western hunting costs and further hammer the resident v. non-resident nail.

I am not foolish enough to think that folks will reason themselves away from their personal biases, mostly guided by where they live and what hunting opportunity they desire. The goal is to lay out the basis for what exists and hopefully get people to think about the topic in a bigger sense than just their own lens.

 
I can't say enough how sad it is to hear so many people either I'm friends with or work with that said they are tapping out this year. 5 of them. These are the DIY guys that just wanted to have the western style hunting experience, not rich land leasers or landowners. I know many will say good, more tags for me but these are the type of non-resident you'd want in your state. It is what it is but it's a bad trend when these people are replaced by the likes of an Iowa couple who play the system to get tags and then lease up land or hire outfitters .
 
It is really the absolute amount of NR hunting revenue and the ratio of total NR to R hunting revenue that matters most in terms of managing resident access to quality hunting.

The individual tag cost matters to the type of NR hunters arriving, in terms of relationships w/ residents, and conservation advocacy. However, these seem far less influential to access.

When the revenue rises to the 10’s of millions and the funding ratio grows 1:1 or higher, States will not say no to more. While NR’s gripe about fee increases, R’s have far more to lose.
 
Great video @Big Fin . States have been able to get away with fee hikes largely because NR collectively have failed to show the willpower to say "No". Sooner or later that needs to change. Is paying more than residents fair? Yes I believe it is, however, there comes a point where it becomes excessive, and several states are quickly heading that direction full throttle. If we ad NR are going to gripe about the prices then we need to speak with our dollars, or more precisely the lack thereof. And that means having the willpower to band together as a unified front and say "not this year"
 
And that means having the willpower to band together as a unified front and say "not this year"
NR will never stop buying tags and create a boycott. The rising prices will simply shift the demographic of who is buying them.

Those who continue to buy tags will also likely have the funds to buy access, either through outfitters of direct landowner leasing.
 
NR will never stop buying tags and create a boycott. The rising prices will simply shift the demographic of who is buying them.

Those who continue to buy tags will also likely have the funds to buy access, either through outfitters of direct landowner leasing.
Exactly. And some are even in a position to purchase large acreages for the sole purpose of hunting. mtmuley
 
I think people need to take a step back and really consider if the prices are too high to hunt out of state.

I don't think they are. Consider what a guided hunt or a guaranteed tag (gov, commission, landowner, etc.) are fetching these days. That's the upper limit of what people are willing to pay to hunt.

I look once in a while at a landowner tags in NV, UT, NM for elk, you don't get those in any decent unit for anywhere close to what the tags are for a NR through the draw.

Another thing many don't consider is the price of everything else that has increased substantially more than the price of a NR hunting license. Anyone looked at house prices, vehicles, etc?

Not sure why people think that NR prices should stay at the same level you paid in 1960 or 2000, or even the last 10 years.

IMO, if a hunter wants to hunt out of state, they need to accept the prices and either choose to pay it or not. I pay the price because for me, wildlife and its management have been a priority for me for a long time. I don't expect to have tags in states other than the one I live in. I don't expect to be able to hunt another state with a cheap tag.

What I do expect is being discriminated against as a NR hunter by price, by tag allocations, seasons, where I can hunt and so on.

I also think that hunting in every state I've hunted as a NR, I'm getting a pretty good deal on price, quality, and experience. Many times I'm getting to hunt at the expense of residents that will likely never have the tag I drew or have to wait as long or longer than I did. Having to fork over some extra money to jump in front of a Resident is the least I can do.
 
NR will never stop buying tags and create a boycott. The rising prices will simply shift the demographic of who is buying them.

Those who continue to buy tags will also likely have the funds to buy access, either through outfitters of direct landowner leasing.
Or you could see a priority shift, where a NR has to prioritize where they spend their money and the number of states they apply in.

In other words, instead of putting in for 5-6 states a year, they may only apply in 1-2. Which, IMO, wouldn't be such a horrible thing. No different than having to decide between vacations in Paris, Disneyland, New Zealand for your one trip a year, instead of doing them all in 5 months.
 
I largely agree in that NR should not feel entitled to lower fees and that every opportunity is a privilege that we should be grateful for and cherish. However, that does not mean we have to be perfectly ok with excessive fee hikes. I agree that there are still many places where the non-resident fee is perfectly reasonable. However, one can say "I'm just glad for the opportunity so I'm glad to pay over $1,000 while a resident pays $20". Will you still be good with it when goes up to $2,000? $3,000? $5,000? $10,000? Yeah me neither. And if you think "that'll never happen", I have bad news, it will. All this to make a couple main points for consideration.

1. If your mindset is "I'm fine with paying more no matter what", you are the reason the fees keep climbing.
2. Being grateful and content with opportunities as a non resident does not mean you're not allowed to oppose fee hikes. @BuzzH is right, we should all be grateful and enjoy the opportunities we have because we are not entitled to them. However, that does not mean we have to keep our mouths shut when we're objectively taken advantage of.
3. The most effective strategy is to let our wallets do the talking. This trend can be changed. Imagine hypothetically if 17,500 elk tags at over $1,000 a pop just went unsold for just one year. Obviously the chances of that are basically zero but hypothetically it could happen and if it did I bet it would turn some heads.
 
Well I just got my check from MFWP. In the last 35 years I’ve not drawn NR tags 12 times I think. I’ve done pretty good on the odds. Never shot a fork horn or a 3 point for that matter, never shot a cow either. I hunt public land when I draw and no Jason I likely can’t afford trespass fees or a guided hunt on top of what FWP charges me. The cost is getting excessive, not sure how many more years you all will have to put up with me packing into someplace, I’ll also turn 70 this year during elk camp someplace. Hell, doing the math on population growth in Montana I’ve held more tags than most residents of the state. I should get a loyalty discount.
I’m about tapped out with Montana, but unless there is another huge bump I’ll try at least one more time.
It’s a privilege to get to hunt, I’m grateful for every tag I get.
 
I largely agree in that NR should not feel entitled to lower fees and that every opportunity is a privilege that we should be grateful for and cherish. However, that does not mean we have to be perfectly ok with excessive fee hikes. I agree that there are still many places where the non-resident fee is perfectly reasonable. However, one can say "I'm just glad for the opportunity so I'm glad to pay over $1,000 while a resident pays $20". Will you still be good with it when goes up to $2,000? $3,000? $5,000? $10,000? Yeah me neither. And if you think "that'll never happen", I have bad news, it will. All this to make a couple main points for consideration.

1. If your mindset is "I'm fine with paying more no matter what", you are the reason the fees keep climbing.
2. Being grateful and content with opportunities as a non resident does not mean you're not allowed to oppose fee hikes. @BuzzH is right, we should all be grateful and enjoy the opportunities we have because we are not entitled to them. However, that does not mean we have to keep our mouths shut when we're objectively taken advantage of.
3. The most effective strategy is to let our wallets do the talking. This trend can be changed. Imagine hypothetically if 17,500 elk tags at over $1,000 a pop just went unsold for just one year. Obviously the chances of that are basically zero but hypothetically it could happen and if it did I bet it would turn some heads.
Well stated, as for me, I've some more thinking to do about this subject and will tread lightly before I form an opinion. Good video; good posts; good opinions.
 
As I've said before there is no incentive for states to lower prices for NR hunters when EVERY year there are thousands upon thousands of NR hunters applying for the few tags available to them. There are never going to be thousands of NR tags unsold.
If 5 or 6 thousand of them say enough is enough and stop applying there will still be thousands more to take their place.
 
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