Frank Church Wilderness to allow chain saws......

[MTTW]

I have seen plenty of evidence of chainsaws used for fire fighting well within the ABW. I am curious why this hasn't lead to motorcycles and whatnot.

 

[Irrelevant]

I have seen plenty of evidence of chainsaws used for fire fighting well within the ABW. I am curious why this hasn't lead to motorcycles and whatnot.

...yet.

I do understand that chainsaws and bike are not the same, and that given the reality of the situation chainsaws would be really useful. Maybe even truly needed.

In Northwest Montana, Storm-snarled Trails Test Durability of Wilderness Chainsaw Ban - Flathead Beacon

Every spring for the past four decades, as the high-elevation snowpack recedes and the trails melt out, Jack Rich has pioneered a route from his guest ranch near Seeley Lake up and over Pyramid Pass, a prominent western gateway to the Bob Marshall Wilderness Complex. To clear the mainline stock...

flatheadbeacon.com

I just think there are better options. Like funding trail crews.

 

[MTTW]

...yet.

I do understand that chainsaws and bike are not the same, and that given the reality of the situation chainsaws would be really useful. Maybe even truly needed.

In Northwest Montana, Storm-snarled Trails Test Durability of Wilderness Chainsaw Ban - Flathead Beacon

Every spring for the past four decades, as the high-elevation snowpack recedes and the trails melt out, Jack Rich has pioneered a route from his guest ranch near Seeley Lake up and over Pyramid Pass, a prominent western gateway to the Bob Marshall Wilderness Complex. To clear the mainline stock...

flatheadbeacon.com

I just think there are better options. Like funding trail crews.

I agree that funding trail crews is a better option, if that is an option. I am just playing devil's advocate.

The slippery slope shit just rings in my ears like the NRA.

 

[El Jason]

I agree that funding trail crews is a better option, if that is an option. I am just playing devil's advocate.

The slippery slope shit just rings in my ears like the NRA.

Agreed. I know of a number of loads of hay that arrived at guard stations in the Bob via helicopter sling during fire exemptions.

 

[338win]

Yes, I agree. Just wait until the mountain bikers ask why the can't ride when you're allowing actual chainsaws...

I’ll take that eventuality any day over pushes for public land sales and infinite wars that debase our currency and continued deficits.

 

[Irrelevant]

and infinite wars that debase our currency and continued deficits.

I didn't know it was mountain bikers or this. Then yes, I'll take mountain bikers too.

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

In Northwest Montana, Storm-snarled Trails Test Durability of Wilderness Chainsaw Ban - Flathead Beacon

Every spring for the past four decades, as the high-elevation snowpack recedes and the trails melt out, Jack Rich has pioneered a route from his guest ranch near Seeley Lake up and over Pyramid Pass, a prominent western gateway to the Bob Marshall Wilderness Complex. To clear the mainline stock...

flatheadbeacon.com

Interesting article and how one of the people said that crosscut are as fast as a chainsaw. Even if that is so, in the hands of an expert, I'm guessing the barrier for entry is far lower with a chainsaw, as it's something most outdoorsmen have and know how to use at some proficiency level.

Article also mentioned access, but do any of our experts know how "Access" is worded and integrated into the Wilderness Act?

 

[Gellar]

I'm guessing the barrier for entry is far lower with a chainsaw, as it's something most outdoorsmen have and know how to use at some proficiency level.

we have two seasonals starting tomorrow. Their duties will be mowing, trail clearing, grounds duties. If they can start a stihl chainsaw on day 1 I will be amazed, let alone sharpen, change the chain when needed and operate.

Don’t even get me started on backing a trailer.

 

[mtmuley]

Interesting article and how one of the people said that crosscut are as fast as a chainsaw.

No way. mtmuley

 

[44hunter45]

I did a summer in white bird on a trail crew in the gospel hump wilderness. Before the seasonals show up (me), the trail crew lead and several permanent FS employees float down the Salmon and clear trail in the Frank using Chainsaws. I think this happens in April and is in a chainsaw restriction exemption period because visitor use is low during that time of year. They head out from the river and clear as much trail as they can in a day and then float to the next trail. I guess now they can do it anytime of year.

GMU 14 thanks you. Lots of tangles in there.

 

[44hunter45]

Even brushing back roads would be a good start.

I drove one today that had several trees cut out only a couple inches wider than a pickup. You can basically see the land management agency that owns the roads office from it

That or the ATV crowd just tears up the effing meadows and drives around them.

Then they lobby USFS for more trails because they are a “conservation” group.

 

[44hunter45]

I'm assuming by hand tools you mean non-motorized stuff. But is this accurate, where all the trails in FC built and maintained prior to 1980 without the use of a chainsaw? FC became Wilderness in 1980. How many new miles of trail were built in the FC after it became Wilderness? I couldn't find that info on a search, curious if anyone knows.

There was the Idaho Wilderness Trail I think.

All done by NGO volunteer teams with hand tools where there were restrictions.

 

[44hunter45]

we have two seasonals starting tomorrow. Their duties will be mowing, trail clearing, grounds duties. If they can start a stihl chainsaw on day 1 I will be amazed, let alone sharpen, change the chain when needed and operate.

Don’t even get me started on backing a trailer.

Two hours to put on the PPE

 

[44hunter45]

I’ll take that eventuality any day over pushes for public land sales and infinite wars that debase our currency and continued deficits.

This.

This is an interesting thread but pales in comparison to Mike Lee trying to gut the entire Wilderness Act of 1964.

Those Canadians might attack any day. We need more FOBs in the Big W, right?

 

[44hunter45]

I always get very nervous when people with power want to get away with something "because it's an emergency." Generally, the "emergency" is either imaginary or entirely of their making.

Never let a crisis go to waste. Even better if you create the crisis to precipitate change you desire.

I think everyone here knows what the administration is doing here and where this ends up.

I do remember that twenty years ago we were fighting over jet boats on the Salmon. Now we don’t even blink about them being there.

I get both sides of this. Where I hunted moose in 2024 was a WSA. We were cutting our way in with chainsaws every day. New blowdowns overnight. Ironically most were the result of prescription burns.

Time has not stood still since 1964, no. But before the trails in the ‘Root, Lewis and Clark ended up eating their horses and damn near each other. How pristine is pristine?